Jason--I have not played Tot Hill. I have played Tobacco Road. I have said on here before that I think Southern Pines is better than TR, but I am not sure. Can you PM me the NC list?
--Off hand, I would say that Pinehurst 2, 4, and 8 are better, Tobacco Road (possibly/probably), Pine Needles, Bryan Park (Champions), Tanglewood (Championship), Linville, Grove Park (So I hear, never played) Currituck Club I would say is better (was at one time top 20 in state GD) Duke is better. Those are just places I have played or walked. I hear there are some very good clubs down south of Wilmington in the 'greater Myrtle Beach area.'
Hold on there, Red. I prefer SPCC to Pinehurst 4 & 8, Pine Needles, and Grove Park. In other words, I prefer it to every course on your list I've played, save #2.
Interesting take. I think #2, The Road & Pine Needles are better than Southern Pines, but I prefer SP to these. In a close bid, but finishing 5th for quality is Mid Pines. I do admit that if Mid Pines were cheaper, it would probably rival SP for my favourite in the area. What all this means for comparing to all the publics in the state - I don't know, but it was my impression that the general Pinehurst area publics do quite well in listings. As for Duke, I wouldn't rate that place any better than mediocre at best. This place along with Bald Head Island are easily the to most disappointing courses I have seen in NC and probably in my life. For the life of me I can't understand how people think this is in the same league as Michigan for college courses. Its a night and day deal.
Any data for Michigan? How did my rave fav Lakewood Shores do? I have always been very impressed by this place and can't help thinking it should do better on the lists.
Ciao
Why was Duke that disappointing? I certainly thought it was very good, probably the best around Raleigh/Durham on the public side.
Duke is touted as one of the best college courses in the country. That places it in good company, but I don't believe Duke can hang with the best.
1. The course doesn't even have a sniff of a reachable par 4 even from the second set of tees which I think is about 6200 yards (its been a while since I was there). Yet there are a good handful of driver wedge holes. One of the best candidates for a drivable hole is #13, but there is so much water about (a pond and two streams) plus the bunkering that there is no point in having a go even if the hole were made shorter.
2. Two par 5s are reachable, but water is directly in front of the greens.
3. There are about 6 holes with water in play on the approach. More than a few of these require a direct carry.
4. Many of the green sites didn't match the surrounds very well. Chipping and putting sometimes feels dopey because shots can't be read. Not a bad ploy once in a while, but overdone at Duke. I think this is what can happen when so much earth is chucked about like is obviously the case at Duke. I can understand that there are low parts to the course and the greens need to be built up a bit, but a better job should have been done.
5. There are too many times when I thought I was hitting the same shot. This may have something to do with softness of the course as the aerial game is how the course was designed to play.
6. The bunkering is too predictable. I can recall only four holes with bunkering to one side or the other of the green. Many low sides of the greens had bunkering which I think was unnecessary. There are also instances of bunkering between the green and water - just dopey.
7. The 4th is a visual nightmare. Water all over the place and much of it only penalizes a terrible shot. There are a few other holes with water around the tees as well. Generally, I think this is a waste, but in the case of Duke there is so much water its hard to know where it all should go.
8. There isn't a single incidence on the course where water is used diagonally for a bite off as much as you dare shot. That is criminal when one considers the amount of water on this course.
9. While trees aren't really an issue for playability, I don't recall a hole where a dogleg was left open from the tee for a view of the green. Instead, the player is guided down a road and can't be tempted by a viewing line to the green even if it is a stupid shot.
I spose in short, the course is one of those stock jobs that really doesn't have any character of its own. There isn't a lot of clever stuff built in to make me want to revisit. Not a bad place at all, but I don't have much time for Duke.
Ciao