[Dan Boerger]

It's been 20 years since I've played the Yahnundasis (I grew up about a mile away from it). Since then, my appreciation for GCA has grown and what a treat it was to play this Travis course again.

John Foley did an excellent job with photos and descriptions: http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,33106.0.html

My additional thoughts ...

There's a wonderful use of natural contours throughout the course. While this might become tedious on a longer course, as long as you get off the tee OK, your uphill and downhill lies will be more manageable with your short iron in.

The greens are on the smallish side, and some are so contoured that I wonder how many pin positions are available (particularly the 11th). On the short par 4 3rd hole you'll meet your first (but certainly not last) blind approach shot to a wonderful green. On the 4th you'll have a difficult approach to a green the slopes left to right. I'm not sure where else they would put the cart path on this hole, but I'm no fan of it where it is. At least consider not paving it.

The 7th is a short, uphill par 3 and you'll be guessing lots about distance and pin position without member help. The 8th hole is a long par 4 to as nice a skyline green as I've seen this side of the NGLA. The 13th is an excellent drop shot par 3.

The finish takes you through a low area and you'll have plenty of water and possibly lots of wet fairways to deal with (particularly 16). 18 is a bruiser of a par 4 to a terrific green complex.

A shorter rather than longer course, very nuanced, a few too many trees in some spots (for my liking), but a course I think most will truly enjoy.

[Mike_Cirba]

Dan,

As I mentioned on the other thread, my biggest regret about the few days I spent in the Syracuse area last year was not getting to play Yahnundasis.    I had also tried to put together a sidetrek to Travis's CC of Troy, which looks magnificent in pics, but neither panned out.

I hope to rectify that situation soon.   The more Travis I see, the more I want to.

[Scott Witter]

Like Dan, I too grew up about 2 miles from the Yahnundasis.  When I finished high school 1975--yikes! and needed a summer job I went and applied and began what was to become a definite love affair with golf, golf architecture and its relationship to the land.

I had played for years, but my grounds position opened my eyes into the game and its connection to architecture and how turf maintenance is essential for achieving architectural intent.

Naturally, I played the course every Monday and usually at least one other day after member hours during twilight.  I know it very well and I can say that with the exception of the back 9 lower holes, 14-16--those were changed when a large shopping mall was built nearby in the 70's, the work by Travis is strong and worth further study by those who appreciate great classic architecture.  Perhaps the best characteristic is the topo and how Travis used this to his advantage.  Interesting, this is one of the top site/architectural parameters we all seem to use when assessing/gaging the quality of a course nowadays .   It is interesting to consider the topo and the length of the course and realize that it doesn't take 7,000 or more yards to create a lot of fun, plenty of challenge and a wonderful playing experience.  John Foley's photos show it pretty well, but of course the best way to appreciate it is to experience it yourself.  Obviously, Travis created many stellar putting surfaces and complemented them with some challenging stances for approach shots...a few of which are blind .

This is a struggling club and has been for quite some time.  There is much that can and should be done to restore and reawaken its luster with tree management and bunker work.  The putting surfaces are small, but many have lost there interesting corners and golfers would benefit greatly from their return for strategic interest and simply more pin positions.  A few years ago they had a solid superintendent, William Carrick, who had experience with classic courses and a good vision to bring back the classic glory to the course, but hard times continued and William moved on.  Their new super, can't remember his name, is also excited about the quality that lies within, but he too, I believe, is choked by the current economic and political standing.  Perhaps there will come a time when the club can look past their political instability and bring aboard an architect to guide them on the right path.

If ever traveling in the area one should not miss the opportunity to play the Yahnundasis--you won't be dissappointed.

[Peter Pallotta]

Scott - thanks, fine post and 'inside scope'.  I used to travel to Syracuse a lot as a kid to visit relatives there, and over the years could literally see the results/effects of the changing economy and economic-hardships on it and some other parts of up-state New York. Are there many other "Yahnundasis" around there, i.e. fine old courses that are not only less well-known than they should be, but are actually suffering or stagnant because of the economic climate?

Peter

[Dan Boerger]

Peter - That's a very good question. The Yahnundasis is as full-service a private club as you'll find in the Utica area yet I don't imagine the club or the course spins off the sort of revenue that would be ideal for maintenance and conditioning.
(BTW, it was in fine shape last week -- but as Scott alluded to I'm sure the greens have crept in and the bunkers looked to be a bit long in the tooth.) It would be a shame if a course such as this were lost to neglect -- or worse.

[John Foley]

Dan / Peter,

Teugega has along term plan to do the type of things that Scott identified.

The comment I heard from them was if they only had more funds to get it all done sooner. Slow and steady they will clear treens, expand greens and renovate the bunkers.

Froma "club" standpoint they seem to be in a little shape than Yahnundasis as the Delta lake property appears to be more healthy with retire's in the area  where Yahnundasis appears to be more of the town's membership. SInce the town is suffering then mebership is.  The deals for membership at both of these places would be astounding.

It's not the old one alone. I played two courses one 10 yes old one 5 years old in the last month and the lack of maintenance upkeep going on was suprising. Tee boxes chewed up and other items.

I have the feeling that golf rounds are down very significantly and with other costs rising, things do not look like they will improive any time soon.

[Peter Pallotta]

Dan, John - thanks.

That area is close to home and still holds a warm spot for me. I wish the news was better...but from my relatives who still live there, it does seem like John is right, i.e. things don't seem to be trending upwards any time soon

Peter

[Ronald Montesano]

Fortunately, Scott came to his senses and moved to the Buffalo area.  Esteemed Mr. Witter, how would you compare Yah with Stafford, Lookout Point and Cherry Hill?  I know Cherry Hill the best, was more impressed with Lookout Point, and need to play Stafford again (it's been a while) before I comment on it.

Thank you, sir.

[John Blain]

Yahnundasis is not even in the same league with Cherry Hill, Stafford or Lookout Point. It's apples and oranges. I've played all four many, many times. I always felt as though Yahnundasis was severely overrated. It has more bad holes than good holes IMHO.

My favorite Travis courses in upstate New York and Vermont:

1) Ekwanok
2) Cherry Hill (it's actually in Canada)
3) Stafford
4) CC of Troy

My least favorite Travis courses in upstate New York:

1) Orchard Park
2) Onondaga
3) Yahundasis

The only Travis course that would be included in the Top 20 courses in upstate New York is Stafford.

I'm sure many of you out there disagree with me and I respect that....

John

[Robert Thompson]

Ian Andrew is in the midst of finishing a restoration of Onondaga, a Travis course in the same part of the world as Yahnundasis. If I remember, Ian was very impressed with Yahnundasis, and Mr. Andrew would likely be the foremost authority of Travis courses -- having worked on quite a number at this point, including Lookout Point, Cherry Hill and Scranton, among others.

Ian is crazy busy these days, but perhaps he'll jump in here.

[Scott Witter]

Ron & JPBlain:

I look at the Yahnundasis as to what it can be, not so much as to how it looks and is cared for at the present, so in that context and IMO it stands fairly well next to Stafford and Onondaga.  There is no question as to the weakness of the lower back 9 holes discussed, but that wasn't Travis' fault.  I do believe, given the merits of better sites, that Lookout, Cherry Hill and CC of Troy are better all around golf.

Ekwanok stands alone for many good reasons, but it is also not in NY.  Scranton--I saw it before Ian's work began and after most of it was finished and without a doubt Ian reawakened some fine work by Travis and it is a must play if traveling through.

Orchard Park is by far the weakest of the group IMO and here again, this is probably linked to many changes to the course as a result of other architects who cared little about history and architectural integrity.  Fortunately, Ian is also their consulting architect and if they are ever able to make a decision and clear finances, his work will vastly improve the experience there.

Stafford is simply a lot of fun to play.  It is relatively short, but like the Yahnundasis, there are many greens sites and putting surfaces that provide a spirited experience and present many challenges to all golfers--a measure IMO to the quality of golf.  The topo is very interesting as well with many rolling fairways, blinds shots and tilted approaches to keep you on your toes.  Here again Ian has done bunker renovations, but I do know he was restricted from restoring and returning many of the lost Travis bunkers that would have really brought it up a couple more notches.  I think he is currently working on tree management and this will greatly enhance all aspects that Travis invisioned.

I too would be interested in Ian's rating but my rating of the NY Travis work would be as follows:

1. CC of Troy--the work by Bruce Hepner has made a BIG difference
2. Onondaga--after Ian's work is completed
3. Stafford--after Ian's work is finished  ( I could almost interchange Onondaga and Stafford)
4. Yahnundasis
5. Orchard Park

[Scott Witter]

Say, did anyone else notice the shared bunkers at the Yahnundasis on holes 3&4, 8&9 and 10&17?  Go back to John Foley's reference thread.

I remember them well and always wished they came more into play.

Thoughts from those in the know?

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