[Ronald Montesano]

Gerry,

As a Buffalo guy, I'm thrilled to read about the best that Toronto has to offer.  What's funny is, the course is not classic-era (1974) nor is it designed by a fellow about whom many on GCA are ambivalent (Tom Fazio).  That's certain to spark some response (and let it come!)  According to some sites, that number from Mike Weir could be a new course record...confirmation?  Congratulations on your membership.

[Gerry B]

ronald:

it was actually designed by george fazio - tom assisted him in the process / routing - ie like butler national. my point was re: obstacles in holding tournaments at private clubs - not that it was a classic era course which it is certainly not.

i was not present  when mike played there a few weeks ago but it was certainly not set up in tournament conditions. virtually no rough and the greens were receptive as there had been a lot of rain as evidenced by glen abbey that week. - had it been fast and firm - it would have been a much different story.

the competitive course record is a 4 under 67 by one lee trevino in 1979 - he finished over par for the tourney. someone told me the cut was 19 over or some insane number.

[Tim Leahy]

I would love to see a major at Spyglass Hill or LACC North.

[wsmorrison]

Huntingdon Valley
Lancaster
Gulph Mills (junior girls or boys)
Glen Mills (publinks)
Charles River
Hidden Creek
Stonewall Old
Bidermann
Sunnehanna

[Jay Carstens]

In some exciting news for us here in the Cornhusker State, I've heard the USGA is preparing to announce the Omaha Country Club will host the 2013 U.S. Men's Senior Open.  The Amateur at Brookline, the Open at Merion, and the Senior at Omaha.  That's are some mighty big company!

[Ronald Montesano]

That's are some mighty big company!

You're right, Jay, that's are some mighty big company!  I'm just funning, amigo.  Who did the design work at Omaha?

Gerry, I read about Lee the Canuck Flea setting the record in 1979.  They played the CPGA at Travis' Cherry Hill in Ontario in 1982.  Ben Crenshaw, Ray Floyd, Lee, and Jim Thorpe played, with Thorpe winning in a playoff against Dave Barr...what a field!  How would you compare/contrast the National with Hamilton (a recent return to the COpen rota and a players favorite) and the two Devil's Pulpit courses from Hurdzan?

[Gerry B]

Ron:

all very different courses

hamilton is a wonderful old gem - nice trees  / interesting terrain and great green complexes  - that is why the players really liked it when they played the cdn open there a few years ago. they will also like st george's  when they hold the open in 2010. they are both short by today's standards so the fairways will have to be narrowed and rough penal or they will go very low.

the pulpit and paintbrush are what i would consider  target courses  - the paintbrush being more of a links style course. a couple of holes on each course that i don't like - but overall they are both very good. as i reside in downtown toronto the drive is too long to the club or i might have considered joining at some point.

the national is simply a very tough golf course with some great elevation changes and a nice variety of holes - there is  some real eye candy especially on the back nine -and it might be best described as the sternest examination of one's game. fantastic green complexes. the rough is not too severe or it would be impossible. the course is almost always in pristeen condition. from the tips it plays close to 7300 yds par 71 and does play much longer than that. when the wind starts to blow especially in the fall it can be a real brute as that is when they really speed up the greens - up to 12.5 - any quicker and they are unputtable. the course is not for everyone - if you are not a decent player or cannot keep the ball in play it will be a long day.

I play most of my golf on the road and consider The National my boot  / training camp -  therefore there  is not a course out there that intimidates me. I tend to play closer to my index on the road.

Is the course one of my favorites? i really enjoy playing there and love the club and membership but prefer the quirkier  / classic courses - ie chicago golf club / myopia / fishers / merion  / cypress / oakmont / atlantic city / indian creek / shinnecock / ngla  / 5 farms east / shoreacres /  olympic and love some of the newer tracks such as sand hills, friars head, pacific dunes as well.
 
The National,  like courses such as butler and oakmont is the type of course that forces you  to take your medicine if you make a bad shot or you will put up some big numbers. 

course faults

 if given the option i would blow up the 16th hole again which has been redone twice and make it a short driveable par 4 with severe consequences -ie risk reward. we do not have such a hole ala 17 at Oakmont / 10 at Merion / 1 and 6 at Myopia, etc.

there are also some trees that need to be trimmed back on 13 and 17 as 2 examples - but they do listen to our ideas.  as we do not have a greens committee - our superintendant deals with the issues.

Jay- you forgot one - the 2013 walker cup is going to be held at NGLA

[Jay Carstens]

[/quote]Who did the design work at Omaha?[/quote]

Ronald, Good question.  Their super told me Langford.  The new masterplan was done by Keith Foster.

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