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JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Putters
« Reply #150 on: July 23, 2012, 03:16:05 PM »
This is going to be great fun to enforce at he amateur level.


Regardless of the fact that the Ruling Bodies say they don't want bifurcated rules...

They've already bifurcated the rules for an extended period of time with the Groove issue: Professional events started Jan 2010, Major Amateur events are Jan 2014 and for the rest of the golfing public, they'll be legal to use until at least 2024.  That's a really long time to implement this.

Maybe it'll become some sort of "Condition of Competition" rule that can be used or not and they'll let everyone else do what they want.

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Putters
« Reply #151 on: July 23, 2012, 03:19:18 PM »
JSlonis,

Just like pornography, you know it when you see it.  I'd also ban 6 practice shots and 5 hour rounds, but I'd start with a club that isn't swung.  For me, all golf shots should be played with both hands together.

So you'd ban the claw grip on the short putter as well because technically your hands aren't together?

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Putters
« Reply #152 on: July 23, 2012, 03:27:57 PM »
J,

Yes, though I'm sure it wouldn't take Rihc and those pros long to modify the claw to have the hands touch.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Putters
« Reply #153 on: July 23, 2012, 03:44:05 PM »
J,

Yes, though I'm sure it wouldn't take Rihc and those pros long to modify the claw to have the hands touch.

Just curious, but where in the history of the game or the rules of golf did it ever say you had to have your hands "together" to make a golf stroke? We are allowed 14 legal clubs and we can hold them how we see fit to best hit the ball.

"Stroke: A "stroke" is the forward movement of the club made with the intention of striking at and moving the ball." Doesn't say I have to have my hands together, doesn't say I need to stand still, doesn't say I have to have my eyes open. Just saying...

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Long Putters
« Reply #154 on: July 23, 2012, 03:55:49 PM »
So your choices will be regular putter or long putter, peanut butter or chocolate, but no Reese's Peanut Butter cup for you...

Why not Reese's though?

Long putters are great from short distances, but tough to judge from longer distances.

Regular putters are better for touch, but some get yippy from short distances.

Why hasn't someone like Phil tried carrying two putters, a long putter for short putts and a regular putter for lag putts? You already take half your shots on the green, give or take.

I'm not surprised it's uncommon, but I'm surprised that I've literally never seen anyone try this.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Putters
« Reply #155 on: July 23, 2012, 04:05:07 PM »


I'm not surprised it's uncommon, but I'm surprised that I've literally never seen anyone try this.


Maybe 6 or 7 years ago,a guy I know made it to the quarters or semis in the Senior Am carrying 2 putters.


Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Putters
« Reply #156 on: July 23, 2012, 04:17:11 PM »
Sorry I haven’t read this thread but..

Are any of you naysayer's aware of the following precedent?

I recently purchased Paul Runyon's book on the Short Game. Blow me down but for the nervous putter he recommends, spreading your feet as wide as possible, jam the club into your belly, split the hands and hey presto! your problems are solved!
Let's make GCA grate again!

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Putters
« Reply #157 on: July 23, 2012, 04:22:04 PM »
I think the rule to ban this stroke is easily written...

"The club shall ONLY touch your hands, and ANY PART of your hands shall ONLY touch the club"

Its as simple as that.  If there is a scenario I've missed, I'd love to hear it...


Mark Woodger

Re: Long Putters
« Reply #158 on: July 23, 2012, 04:23:43 PM »
Sorry I haven’t read this thread but..

Are any of you naysayer's aware of the following precedent?

I recently purchased Paul Runyon's book on the Short Game. Blow me down but for the nervous putter he recommends, spreading your feet as wide as possible, jam the club into your belly, split the hands and hey presto! your problems are solved!


must be a short book  ;D

personally i am against the achoring to the body. The long one like Scotts is fine to me the Webb Simpson version i am dead against.

Jason Walker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Putters
« Reply #159 on: July 23, 2012, 04:37:00 PM »
I think the rule to ban this stroke is easily written...

"The club shall ONLY touch your hands, and ANY PART of your hands shall ONLY touch the club"

Its as simple as that.  If there is a scenario I've missed, I'd love to hear it...



Define HANDS

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Putters
« Reply #160 on: July 23, 2012, 04:43:08 PM »
I think the rule to ban this stroke is easily written...

"The club shall ONLY touch your hands, and ANY PART of your hands shall ONLY touch the club"

Its as simple as that.  If there is a scenario I've missed, I'd love to hear it...



Define HANDS

From the wrists down.....

Put your finger on the knobby bone sticking out on the top of the outside of the wrist, and draw a line perpendicular to your lower arm.....anything below that.

Easy peasy....

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Putters
« Reply #161 on: July 23, 2012, 04:44:09 PM »
I think the rule to ban this stroke is easily written...

"The club shall ONLY touch your hands, and ANY PART of your hands shall ONLY touch the club"

Its as simple as that.  If there is a scenario I've missed, I'd love to hear it...



Sounds great until you hit a putt one handed with a beer in your other hand.... but thanks for playing...

And if you can putt better with one hand...then so be it.  I don't think anyone would call a rules violation on you for doing that...  ;)

Doug Sobieski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Putters
« Reply #162 on: July 23, 2012, 04:45:43 PM »
I think the rule to ban this stroke is easily written...

"The club shall ONLY touch your hands, and ANY PART of your hands shall ONLY touch the club"

Its as simple as that.  If there is a scenario I've missed, I'd love to hear it...


This is going to be a blow to the many amputees (or people otherwise missing hands) that play with adaptive devices that essentially anchor the club to their arms in some fashion. I guess they'll no longer be able to compete under the rules and post scores. Darn it! For the sake of adhering to tradition, they are going to have to give up the game that they love. Oh, well.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Putters
« Reply #163 on: July 23, 2012, 04:54:22 PM »
I think the rule to ban this stroke is easily written...

"The club shall ONLY touch your hands, and ANY PART of your hands shall ONLY touch the club"

Its as simple as that.  If there is a scenario I've missed, I'd love to hear it...


This is going to be a blow to the many amputees (or people otherwise missing hands) that play with adaptive devices that essentially anchor the club to their arms in some fashion. I guess they'll no longer be able to compete under the rules and post scores. Darn it! For the sake of adhering to tradition, they are going to have to give up the game that they love. Oh, well.

We've long made special exceptions for those without limbs/otherwise.  Casey Martin got his cart on the PGA tour....And if there is an amputee who was good enough to play at the highest levels, all the more power to him/her.

But this doesn't really affect normal play...most weekend hacks break several rules on any given round anyways.

Doug Sobieski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Putters
« Reply #164 on: July 23, 2012, 05:25:17 PM »
I think the rule to ban this stroke is easily written...

"The club shall ONLY touch your hands, and ANY PART of your hands shall ONLY touch the club"

Its as simple as that.  If there is a scenario I've missed, I'd love to hear it...


This is going to be a blow to the many amputees (or people otherwise missing hands) that play with adaptive devices that essentially anchor the club to their arms in some fashion. I guess they'll no longer be able to compete under the rules and post scores. Darn it! For the sake of adhering to tradition, they are going to have to give up the game that they love. Oh, well.

We've long made special exceptions for those without limbs/otherwise.  Casey Martin got his cart on the PGA tour....And if there is an amputee who was good enough to play at the highest levels, all the more power to him/her.

But this doesn't really affect normal play...most weekend hacks break several rules on any given round anyways.

Kalen:

The Casey Martin case wasn't over the Rules of Golf. It was the Conditions of Competition of the PGA Tour. We are talking about the Rules of Golf with regard to this issue. THIS IS ABOUT NORMAL PLAY, because they are contemplating a change to the Rules impacting how the game is played. If we don't care about "normal" play, then leave the Rules as they are and this entire debate is irrelevant. The professional tours could rule as they see fit. But when changing the Rules, it must be clear and contemplative of all potential situations. There is no way the ruling bodies can make it so that they have to opine on endless "special exceptions".

Your response above basically says that anchoring should only be an issue for professionals, which is a case for two sets of Rules. If that's the case, then let's not worry about the Rules as they currently stand, and leave them as they are. Let the various Tours sort it out themselves.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Putters
« Reply #165 on: July 23, 2012, 05:47:09 PM »
And I would be fine with that as well.

I've always been an advocate of seperate sets of rules.  Nearly every other sport has done such, I don't know why golf hasn't followed suit in full force, even though it has partially started with rules on grooves.  There is no reason in the world the PGA tour couldn't have its own special set of rules and equipment....


Patrick_Mucci

Re: Long Putters
« Reply #166 on: July 23, 2012, 07:19:40 PM »
I've always advocated banning the long putter, however, while it's legal, I switched in May, and the result is that I know longer "yip" 1, 2 and 3 footers.  The trade off is that I'm still trying to learn how to putt accurately from off the green, which iwas always good at.


Patrick,

If this is a problem, I'm curious if you had considered carrying two putters? 

I tried carrying two putters but it was a real pain and I had to take another club out of play.

I finally made the commitment to go with one putter


At least on those courses where you are likely to have a lot of putts from off the green, maybe this benefits you more than a fairway wood, long iron or wedge you'd replace. 

I only carry one wood, a 3-wood and I use my L, S and P Wedges, so it has to be one putter


David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Putters
« Reply #167 on: July 24, 2012, 01:54:40 PM »

Dean Burke

Re: Long Putters
« Reply #168 on: July 24, 2012, 02:41:56 PM »
most of the talk i hear is about the USGA and R&A changing rules - which would affect all of us poor amateurs.   then there are those calling for 2 sets of rules.  But i haven't seen much from the PGA Tour on their stance on the issue?  does the Tour want to outlaw these?  and if the Rules bodies change the rules on anchoring couldn't the PGA Tour still allow anchoring?  much like the split rule for range finders / etc? ???

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Putters
« Reply #169 on: July 24, 2012, 03:08:26 PM »
most of the talk i hear is about the USGA and R&A changing rules - which would affect all of us poor amateurs.   then there are those calling for 2 sets of rules.  But i haven't seen much from the PGA Tour on their stance on the issue?  does the Tour want to outlaw these?  and if the Rules bodies change the rules on anchoring couldn't the PGA Tour still allow anchoring?  much like the split rule for range finders / etc? ???

I've heard a few of the TV guys mention over the last few days that Professional golf is the only major sport that allows an amateur organization to rule it. I'm surprised the PGA Tour hasn't said to the USGA/R&A... "enough already, we've got it from here."

The PGA Tour could've set the tone years ago in reference to the ball, long putters or any other modern issue that they saw fit to address. Due the radically skewed influence the very best players have over the game, I'd argue that those governing bodies would've fallen in line.

The long putter issue is the most recent example. For me, I figured out that I was a better putter with the long model 18 yrs ago, now because over the past few years  a small handful of tour level players have noticed the same thing, I might not be able to play golf the same way anymore. It's stupid.

In my view, the USGA/R&A totally botched the recent Groove rule. I would say for 99.9% of the best players, its been a total non issue. I don't think it's had hardly any effect on the game at the highest level, it initially cost the manufacturers some money, it's cost players like me more money, because I need different wedges to play in certain events and it's essentially a bifurcation of the rules for about a 15 yr period. Makes no sense to me.

Looks like they are heading in the same direction with this putter issue. All this spirit of the game talk, ruining the game nonsense is just that...nonsense. What the hell difference does Ernie winning with a belly putter or Scott winning with a long putter have in regard to your average weekend game? None!!  

Oh...I forgot...it doesn't look like how the shepherd banged around his rock 300 yrs ago. Gimme a break!  ;D
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 03:15:25 PM by JSlonis »

Jim Sherma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Putters
« Reply #170 on: July 24, 2012, 03:18:20 PM »
I've been using a broomstick for a couple of years now and here's the quandry. Let's say that the rumors are true and all anchored strokes are banned starting in 2016. What's the best reponse for a current user? I am hoping to remain playing at a decent level for another 20 years or so. While not elite by any means I do like to play in some tournaments and playing with conforming equipment is important for that.

I did not switch to the long putter because of the yips or anything like that. I just found that I putted more consistently with it and I also seemed to eliminate the truly horrorshow putting days that had crept in as I aged. I am fairly confident that I can become a decent putter with a short putter again, probably by making a few longer putts but with the tradeoff of missing a few more short ones. I am sure that there are guys that use long putters that would have a much tougher time switching back. But generally speaking, which of the two plans makes the most sense?

To make the switch at the time of the announcement and put the work in to become as good as possible with a short putter.

-or-

Keep using the long putter and make the switch at the time of the ban after being another three years away from using a short putter.


JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Putters
« Reply #171 on: July 24, 2012, 03:26:12 PM »
Jim,

Keep using the long putter. With the long model, it's still possible to putt pretty well with it even if it's not "anchored". (whatever definition they come up with for that)

You can hold it pretty much the same with your top hand just slightly away from your chest. Trust me, I've tried it with all this recent banning talk.  ;)

If they ban just anchoring and don't regulate the length I think it'll essentially end belly putter use but not necessarily the long putter.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 03:28:25 PM by JSlonis »

Jim Sherma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Putters
« Reply #172 on: July 24, 2012, 03:52:51 PM »
Jamie - I basically already have wrist against the chest and never really felt that I anchored the club against my body in any event. I try to rock more than pendulum the putter against a fixed point. If they regulate the length of the club then all bets are off.

DSchmidt - I agree that the whole thing is crazy. No course has ever been modified because of how someone holds the putter. Until they address the balls and the drivers the USGA has lost most of its credibility in my opinion. (The cheater line is neither here nor there in my opinion as long as using it doesn't slow up play, as a kid I used to line up the lettering on the ball or the dinple seam to the same effect. What type of regulation would you reccomend for "fixing the cheater line" and how can it be enforced as long as there are any straight lines on a golf ball that could be used as such?)


David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Putters
« Reply #173 on: July 24, 2012, 04:03:56 PM »
Jim, Jamie & David -

Did you see the video of Randy Haag "face-on" putting?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGv-9d8XePs

Neither his left hand or wrist or the putter grip touches any part of his body.

DT   

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Long Putters
« Reply #174 on: July 24, 2012, 04:27:50 PM »
To quote Moses (aka Charlton Heston)...

You can take my Belly Putter from my cold dead hands.


« Last Edit: July 24, 2012, 04:29:27 PM by Dan Kelly »
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
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