Golf in Seattle

[Richard Choi]

One play can't determine how the hole can be played on a day to day basis.  Sean would know better then any of us anyways.

Agree.

But then again, I have had no overwhelming urge to play that course again (unlike many others on the list)...

[igrowgrass]

One play can't determine how the hole can be played on a day to day basis.  Sean would know better then any of us anyways.

Agree.

But then again, I have had no overwhelming urge to play that course again (unlike many others on the list)...

What makes you not want to play it again? 
I don't know if you can consider the shot at 13 a true 'bump and run.'  Laying it short and letting the slope take the ball onto the green is definetly and option of play when the weather cooperates.  Sean Leary has that shot in his bag everytime.

[Scott Stambaugh]

One play can't determine how the hole can be played on a day to day basis.  Sean would know better then any of us anyways.

Agree.

But then again, I have had no overwhelming urge to play that course again (unlike many others on the list)...

What makes you not want to play it again? 
I don't know if you can consider the shot at 13 a true 'bump and run.'  Laying it short and letting the slope take the ball onto the green is definetly and option of play when the weather cooperates.  Sean Leary has that shot in his bag everytime.

Gee, someone slights the Big Show and look who comes out of hibernation...

SS

[igrowgrass]

One play can't determine how the hole can be played on a day to day basis.  Sean would know better then any of us anyways.

Agree.

But then again, I have had no overwhelming urge to play that course again (unlike many others on the list)...

What makes you not want to play it again? 
I don't know if you can consider the shot at 13 a true 'bump and run.'  Laying it short and letting the slope take the ball onto the green is definetly and option of play when the weather cooperates.  Sean Leary has that shot in his bag everytime.

Gee, someone slights the Big Show and look who comes out of hibernation...

SS

We are far from the big show.  Always curious of myself to know why people don't enjoy it.  We need to take the Open/PGA approach: Narrow the fairways and move the bunkers.

[Sean Leary]

Sean,

I believe you have mistaken that shot for the pull hook left I usually hit. I have planted a pro v farm in the gully left.

PS The greens are still too slow

[igrowgrass]

Sean,

I believe you have mistaken that shot for the pull hook left I usually hit. I have planted a pro v farm in the gully left.

PS The greens are still too slow

I've got the otherside covered on 13.  Way right is such a good move for me. 

Greens slow = add more lead tape to that putter.

[Richard Choi]

What makes you not want to play it again? 

I didn't say I don't want to play it again. I would be happy to play the course again if I was presented with an opportunity.

I just won't be actively seeking out that opportunity and if I never play that course again, I am not going to be that disappointed.

I just don't find the course that interesting or memorable (the most memorable part were those consecutive uphill holes, and not necessarily memorable in a good way). It seemed to me like it was very similar to other Fazio courses that I have played except that Aldarra is surrounded by tall firs.

It was in a beautiful shape and conditioning was excellent, but I don't necessarily put that as my highest priority when it comes to selecting a place to play.

If money was no object and I could play any course I want tomorrow in Seattle area, I would pick Chambers Bay, Olympic Course, and probably even Washington National before I pick Aldarra.

[Tom Yost]

I played Chambers Bay a week ago and would rate it a "must play."   I have some photos and will do a short write up as soon as I have some time.


Tom

[BVince]

Tom, I agree completely.  Chambers is a must play for the area.  I did 36 out there a few weeks ago and it is starting to come along.  Still a little rough in the maintance department but it has improved quite a bit over the last year.  It will only continue to improve.

[John Mayhugh]

I got to play Chambers for the first time last week.  It's the only public that I've played in Seattle, but I thought it was well-worth the trip.  Compared to other high end (AKA expensive) public-access options, I think Chambers is a notch below the likes of Pebble & Kiawah Ocean, but well ahead of Whistling Straits & Torrey Pines.

It would be a good idea to bring along some lead tape or a heavy putter.  I couldn't get a putt to the hole all day.  Would love to have had a second round there, but not sure I'm fit enough to play 36 in a day.  It's quite the walk.

[Patrick Schultheis]

Both Seans - the 47 Bridgstones and ProV's with Stanford logos you find in the right woods on #13 are all mine, courtesy of my left handed pull hook

I'm playing Chambers Bay this afternoon.  I'll weigh in on the Chambers/Aldarra/Tumble Creek/etc debate afterward.

Sean L - I (finally) broke ground at Tumble Creek last week.

Patrick

[Sean Leary]

Pat,

Its about time. Hurry up:)

[Tom Yost]

I got to play Chambers for the first time last week.  It's the only public that I've played in Seattle, but I thought it was well-worth the trip.  Compared to other high end (AKA expensive) public-access options, I think Chambers is a notch below the likes of Pebble & Kiawah Ocean, but well ahead of Whistling Straits & Torrey Pines.

It would be a good idea to bring along some lead tape or a heavy putter.  I couldn't get a putt to the hole all day.  Would love to have had a second round there, but not sure I'm fit enough to play 36 in a day.  It's quite the walk.

It is quite a walk.  I had a caddie and still my knees were creaking!  My game tee to green was quite remarkable as I managed to stay out of the waste areas for all but one hole, but was let down by my putting - 41 putts!!! including six 3-putts!   


Tom

[Peter_Herreid]

While my enjoyment of the layout and atmosphere surrounding Chambers Bay is well-documented here, and I have been able to get in a dozen or so rounds there now, I must say that the greens themselves continue to be the biggest frustration with the entire experience (as a relative "local")...

Of course, it's how they are adapting over the next few years that count, not how they are on August 6th (my most recent round there), but I think everyone should realize that the greens are simply not that good right now--not rolling uniformly either within a given green, or between greens...

I caddied in the USGA Am qualifier exactly one week before, and I did get the sense that most of the greens were in the range of 6.5 to 7.5 for that event, but I do not believe they're rolling at 8-8.5 as the caddies were claiming last week.  I'd have been shocked if they were much more than 6.0

I suppose it's possible that the conditions last week could have been at least in part due to letting them "recover" from the stress of holding the qualifier.

Tees, fairways and surrounds were playing quite nicely, fairly firm and fast, and we've had great weather up here this summer.  Just wanted folks to be aware that the greens continue to be "such as they are"...

Don't think it should stop anyone from visiting and experiencing Chambers Bay, but for those of you who really count on a certain "conditioning" on the greens, you could be surprised if you're anticipating Bandon-like consistency...

[BVince]

While my enjoyment of the layout and atmosphere surrounding Chambers Bay is well-documented here, and I have been able to get in a dozen or so rounds there now, I must say that the greens themselves continue to be the biggest frustration with the entire experience (as a relative "local")...

Of course, it's how they are adapting over the next few years that count, not how they are on August 6th (my most recent round there), but I think everyone should realize that the greens are simply not that good right now--not rolling uniformly either within a given green, or between greens...

I caddied in the USGA Am qualifier exactly one week before, and I did get the sense that most of the greens were in the range of 6.5 to 7.5 for that event, but I do not believe they're rolling at 8-8.5 as the caddies were claiming last week.  I'd have been shocked if they were much more than 6.0

I suppose it's possible that the conditions last week could have been at least in part due to letting them "recover" from the stress of holding the qualifier.

Tees, fairways and surrounds were playing quite nicely, fairly firm and fast, and we've had great weather up here this summer.  Just wanted folks to be aware that the greens continue to be "such as they are"...

Don't think it should stop anyone from visiting and experiencing Chambers Bay, but for those of you who really count on a certain "conditioning" on the greens, you could be surprised if you're anticipating Bandon-like consistency...

I was there too...no way were they rolling an 8.5,,,I like your guess at it

[Richard Choi]

Peter, I am in a complete agreement.

The greens are rolling much better than last year, but they still have a ways to go. Anyone who is planning on playing there should be prepared for your share of 3 putts.

And it also annoys me to HELL whenever they say "our greens are rolling at 8 or 9". I've played there 7 times over last year (Peter's dozen round is pretty impressive) and they said the exact same thing about the green every time!!! And you would be lucky to have to greens rolling at 6 or 7.

It is doubly annoying when you factor in the fact that the practice greens DO roll faster than the greens on the course. So, when they say "our greens are rolling at 8 or 9", they are referring to the practice green. But once you get out on the course, the actual greens are rolling much slower and much bumpier. My first couple of holes at Chambers are almost always guaranteed 3 putts because the practice green is so much faster.

It just kind of cheapens otherwise a memorable experience at Chambers Bay.

[Jeff Grossman]

I have played most of the courses that everyone has listed in this post. 

I really dont get why Gold Mountain is so high on everyone's list.  Can someone explain this? 

Can remember who posted it, but the the discussion about the 12th a GM, is a dramatic hole.  The hole is supposed to be a redan style, but doesn't a redan play slightly uphill?  GM is a good course IMO its not a great course.

Just would like to hear your thoughts on why people consider it  in the top courses in the state.

[Craig Van Egmond]

Jeff,

    Its all relative, its not that the Olympic course is all that great, its just the rest of the public golf in Washington ain't all that either.  It has certainly gotten much better over the last 10-15 years, but until Chambers Bay came along there wasn't anything available to the general public that I would fly to Washington just to play. Don't get me wrong there are plenty of decent public courses now but nothing great (excluding CB).

[Richard Choi]

The Olympic Course at Gold Mountain is a GREAT course in my opinion. As good as many many courses on Top 100 You Can Play List.

The best characteristic of the course is its routing. It is built on a hilly terrain and it takes great advantage of the elevation changes; rolling fairways, nice mix of blind uphill shots, dramatic downhill holes. John Harbottle does a fantastic job with elevation changes to give definition to the holes and create memorable shots.

There are also a great mix of long/shor par 4's and long/short par 3's. The rhythm and mix of the holes is great, always keeping you interested and engaged.

Many of the holes feature multiple shot angles with appropriate risk/reward scenarios. For example let's take a look at the par 5, No 6; it has a huge amount of elevation change, it goes down about 30 feet from the teeing ground to a valley than rises up 40 feet to a landing area then drops down 50 feet to the green. Normally, that kind of elevation change becomes very challenging and not much fun. But Harbottle set it up so that the tee shot landing area is level with plenty of room just slightly uphill from the tees. But if you are going for the green in two, you will have to hit your shot beyond the landing area where you will face a severe downhill shot with a long iron (great risk/reward). There is also an additional element in the front of the green where there are multiple grass moguls guarding the green, so if you long approach shot is short, the rebound could land almost anywhere and your lie can be dicey.

To me, this is about as fun as golf gets. The hole really makes you think and evaluate your options with proper risk and reward values. And the course is filled with holes like this. It is truly a gem in the NW.

To slight the great 12th because it is not a true redan hole seems to me is ridiculous. You should evalute the hole for what it is, a great dramatic par 3, not what is or is not trying to be.

Out of all the courses I have played on the Top 100 list, I would put it on par with Crosswater. It is certainly superior to Reflection Bay, Doral, and many others.

[Jeff Grossman]

Richard,

Interesting points....with regard to the 12th I was strickly speaking from a design stand point.  I find it interesting to have a redan style design for a hole that long with such a dramatic elevation drop.  Its a strong par3 but IMO would consider it to be great. 

Dont get me wrong, GM is a good course just wanted to hear peoples thoughts

[Craig Van Egmond]

Jeff,

     For what its worth I thought that the Olympic course was the best public golf course in the state of Washington at the time I moved away in 2002 and I played almost 100 of them.  At that I only give it a 7 on the Doak scale.  The word great is certainly overused and I don't think I would use it in this case. 



     

[Patrick Schultheis]

To respond to Ted's original inquiry, I agree that Chambers Bay is a "must play."  I thoroughly enjoyed it on Wednesday --- though I'll guess that not many people get to play it when it's 90 degrees, sunny and only a slight breeze.

Having only played it once, I don't feel competent to go into detail about the course.  I'll leave two observations:

 - it felt a LOT like Whistling Straits, in the sense that (i) it's alongside a body of water that's big, but doesn't truly feel like the ocean (at least the way that the Scottish links and the two seaside Bandon courses do) and (ii) I could certainly tell that a TON of dirt was moved to create the course (not being critical of that --- just observing).

 - living in the Seattle area, I'll play Chambers Bay two or three times per year.  I much prefer both Aldarra and Tumble Creek as my two clubs/every day courses, for a multitude of reasons.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

Not to be too specific, but none if any of the courses discussed in this thread are in Seattle. 

Chambers is in University Place in Pierce County.  Pierce County, Tacoma and its surrounds, thankfully, are much different than its neighbor to the North.  Good luck finding much valuable golf in the city limits of Seattle.

[Jordan Wall]

To respond to Ted's original inquiry, I agree that Chambers Bay is a "must play."  I thoroughly enjoyed it on Wednesday --- though I'll guess that not many people get to play it when it's 90 degrees, sunny and only a slight breeze.

Having only played it once, I don't feel competent to go into detail about the course.  I'll leave two observations:

 - it felt a LOT like Whistling Straits, in the sense that (i) it's alongside a body of water that's big, but doesn't truly feel like the ocean (at least the way that the Scottish links and the two seaside Bandon courses do) and (ii) I could certainly tell that a TON of dirt was moved to create the course (not being critical of that --- just observing).

 - living in the Seattle area, I'll play Chambers Bay two or three times per year.  I much prefer both Aldarra and Tumble Creek as my two clubs/every day courses, for a multitude of reasons.

Patrick,

I'm partial for obvious reasons to Seattle CC as my ideal every day course, but that aside I don't think I could really enjoy Chambers Bay as my home course.

In my opinion, it is just too crazy and intense to play every day.  I love it, but it's a tough course and I think I would prefer Seattle (or Aldarra and Tumble Creek) as an everyday course.

For the record, this is not at all a knock to Chambers Bay, it's just not a course I would like playing on a daily basis.

Cheers,
Jordan

[Patrick Schultheis]

If a criterion is "within the Seattle city limits" then I think the best choices are Seattle GC and Broadmoor (both private) and, I guess, West Seattle (muni).

I could not agree with Jordan more.