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Ronald Montesano

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Brierwood (fka Bethlehem Management Club) in Hamburg, NY
« on: August 09, 2008, 10:29:54 PM »
This private club, currently in the Arnold Palmer stable of clubs, is one of two area courses whose lineage I cannot trace.  If anyone has information on the topic, let her or him speak up!
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Mike_Cirba

Re: Brierwood (fka Bethlehem Management Club) in Hamburg, NY
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2008, 01:07:40 PM »
Ronald,

I'm about 99% certain that it was the father/son team of William & David Gordon, who did a lot of work for Bethlehem Steel, primarily in PA.

One online general golf site mentions "Martin & Martin" as the designers but I believe that is incorrect, or the type of typo/misinformation one often finds at these generic sites.

Was the course ever 27 holes, or planned as such?   It looks from the aerial overview that the development south/central of the course may have been part of the original land?

C&W lists William & David Gordon as having designed "Bethlehem Steel Club" in New York, 27 holes, around 1956.

I've played a zillion of their courses and in looking at the aerial overview of the property, I'm almost certain it's theirs.

Hope this help!
Mike

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brierwood (fka Bethlehem Management Club) in Hamburg, NY
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2008, 02:06:08 PM »
I've nothing to corroborate this, but it certainly is a fine start.  What, perchance, is C & W?  I'm not familiar with the resource.  Thanks for your legwork to date!
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Mike_Cirba

Re: Brierwood (fka Bethlehem Management Club) in Hamburg, NY
« Reply #3 on: August 10, 2008, 03:00:34 PM »
I've nothing to corroborate this, but it certainly is a fine start.  What, perchance, is C & W?  I'm not familiar with the resource.  Thanks for your legwork to date!

Ronald,

C&W is "Geoffrey Cornish & Ron Whitten"'s "The Architects of Golf", copyright 1981/1993 which is the most comprehensive listing of golf course architectural research ever produced.

Although it isn't perfect, it's a wonderful book if you can get a hold of a copy.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brierwood (fka Bethlehem Management Club) in Hamburg, NY
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2010, 09:24:31 PM »
Bump.

I played this course today and was quite impressed by the movement of the greens.  Putting surfaces that I had not looked at with any sort of consideration in the past, leaped out at me as subtle, challenging, demanding.  Bunkering styles can change, of course, especially when a redo team is brought in.  The variety of bunker shapes and arrangements also struck me as unique.

Is anyone familiar with William and David Gordon's work?  If so, could you shed some light on their stylings, theories, practices?  Thank you in advance.  I'll hang up and listen.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Doug Braunsdorf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brierwood (fka Bethlehem Management Club) in Hamburg, NY
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2010, 11:30:29 PM »
Ronald, and Mike;

  I don't have enough direct experience with the Gordons to instantly recognize one of their courses, however:

1.  Look at the bunker shapes; there appear to be about three different styles here; one in the V-shaped piece of the property in the lower left corner, a second in the squiggly shapes towards the topmost holes, and some flower-shaped ones towards the center. 
I am thinking more of the bunker shapes in this bottom "V" as more consistent with what I have seen from the Gordons, sort of "roundish" like Flynn but laying less soft on the land, or less carefully placed, as Flynn's features do.

2.  Many of the holes, in particular the longish par 5 more or less in the center of the property have a long, lean appearance.  Similar to a few of the holes at Saucon Valley, Indian Valley, Hercules/Delaware Nat'l and Deerfield. 

Consider the 1st at Deerfield compared to this hole--it's a long hole, and the dogleg comes very "late" in the hole (I know this is a bad way of putting it, but I think you understand what I mean); the dogleg isn't able to be carried or cut from the tee. 

These are just a few thoughts currently.
"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Brierwood (fka Bethlehem Management Club) in Hamburg, NY
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2010, 11:44:45 PM »
Interesting point on the par fives...all four are doglegs (three to the left, one to the right) and only the 17th hole has an early dogleg...5, 7 and 14 all dogleg late in the hole.

The greens at Brierwood are enormous.  The only other course in WNY from the 1900s that has similar greens is a Desmond Muirhead design, River Oaks, on Grand Island.  In spite of their size, they are well-segmented, with subtle contours that force proper consideration of break, coupled with pace.  There are few if any double breaks.

The bunkers follow the three styles you identify.  I believe that one of the holes had a stacked effect of a flower, followed by three oval bunkers; it was this bunker sequence that opened my consideration of the Gordons' work.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!