PIMBY

[Mike Hendren]

Please In My Back Yard. 

At the rate we're going, it seems like one will need a Gulfstream 20 years from now to play any of the top 50 Modern on Golfweek's list. 

Is the current trend sustainable?
Would an absolutely disastrous economic default for a great remote course stem the tide?
Who will build the next great "mainstream" golf course?
Who's the modern Donald Ross who can do  more with less just about anywhere?
Will Tom Doak ever return to Southern Indiana?

Just wondering.

Mike

[John Moore II]

I think the trend we are seeing is based on land available. There is little land left around the major cities that makes for good golf land. I think Dormie Club here in Pinehurst is a bit of an aberation in the current trend. The great land available is simply far away from the major areas. There is nothing we can do to make more land.

[Kalen Braley]

Sure there is....quite simple actually!!

[Tom_Doak]

Michael:

Do you know anybody who actually wants to develop a golf course in southern Indiana?

We are still getting calls about new work, but most of it is about very faraway places -- the last five were about Nicaragua, South Korea, Australia, St. Lucia, and Fort Wayne, Indiana.  The Fort Wayne guys want to blow up an existing course and make an exclusive, high-dollar private club drawing from the larger region -- how does that business plan sound to you?  Sadly, either of the first two is a more likely prospect for us.

[John Moore II]

Tom--What you are saying is kind of what I was hinting at. I don't think there are very many people wanting to develop high quality golf courses in high population areas anymore. Those areas are generally too saturated all ready. I don't see many new courses being built in, say, Pinehurst or Raleigh going forward (although there are supposedly a few new ones planned in Pinehurst). Far off areas are where courses are being built now.

[Tim Bert]

Mike -

Norman and Hills are designing IYBY as we type.  I'm sure you've seen the video on Norman's web site.  He's told us that he's going for the natural look.  Now, according to the site map, that natural look is going to be isolated with each individual hole running through rows of houses, but it will be natural nonetheless.  My understanding is that most of the holes at Pine Valley are isolated as well, so there will probably be similarities!

Tom -

I travel to Fort Wayne for Thanksgiving every other year, and I'd be willing to play your course once every two years.  Perhaps I'm what they mean by a larger region.

[Jim Tang]

I too, think, you'll continue to see the trend of building great golf courses in remote locations.  Bandon/Pacific Dunes proved that IF you build a great golf course, it doesn't matter where it is, people who are passionate about golf will come.

In fact, I think the remotness of a site actually ADDS to the overall experience.  You travel long and far, and the anticipation builds.  When you finally get there (Bandon, Sand Hills, Ballyneal, Cape Kidnappers, etc., you know you are somewhere special.  Instead of a golf trip, it becomes a golfing oddessy.

The old model of building tremendous private golf clubs in heavily populated areas is pretty much out the window.

[John Moore II]

The old model of building tremendous private golf clubs in heavily populated areas is pretty much out the window.

Jim-yes, you are correct in that statement. But why do you think that is the case?

[Mike Hendren]

Michael:

Do you know anybody who actually wants to develop a golf course in southern Indiana?

We are still getting calls about new work, but most of it is about very faraway places -- the last five were about Nicaragua, South Korea, Australia, St. Lucia, and Fort Wayne, Indiana.  The Fort Wayne guys want to blow up an existing course and make an exclusive, high-dollar private club drawing from the larger region -- how does that business plan sound to you?  Sadly, either of the first two is a more likely prospect for us.

Tom,  I merely  heard that you really enjoyed your time there!   The issue boils down to this:  How are we gonna keep you down on the farm after you've seen Paris?

Mike

[Steve Kline]

The old model of building tremendous private golf clubs in heavily populated areas is pretty much out the window.

Jim-yes, you are correct in that statement. But why do you think that is the case?

Because there already is enough of them. I know in Cincinnati there are too many country clubs. I've been looking for a new one and it's hard to find one that has the right stuff going on. Most don't allow walking at peak times - which instantly crosses them off my list. Most don't have the first clue about the ideal maintenance meld. But no one would build a new one because most of the existing ones are struggling to keep memberships up.

[Jim Tang]

Local private clubs used to be the haven of professional men.  They went on the weekend, played golf with other well connected, professional men in their neighborhood.  The clubs also offered ammenities for their wives and children ie. pools, social clubs, social events.  The private club was designed to be a lifestyle choice.

Today, family life is very, very different.  Families are now super busy 7 days a week.  Kids are involved in a variety of activities and need to be driven to those activities.  Women are now fully part of the workforce and work just as many hours as their husbands.  There are many, many more social and entertainment opportunities for families such as television, the internet, theme parks, sporting events, etc.

All of that takes away from the time a family spends at a private country club.  Instead, I think what you'll see is guys taking trips to a remote golfing sites like Sand Hills, Bandon, Ballyneal and others, and simply binge on golf for 4 or 5 days.  Then, they fly back to their lives at home and all that they have to offer.

A good friend of mine is doing just that.  He LOVES golf, would play it every day if he could.  But, he can't.  He is in his mid 30's, has two kids, works like a dog at a very good job.  His weekends are maxed out either with work or family.  He wants to make sure when he is not working, he is spending quality time with his kids and wife.  So he has played little local golf.  Instead, his intention is to join a private club at a remote site and visit there perhaps twice a year and just play golf all day long.

For him, this private club offers everything he could want, golf and only golf.  There is lodging on site, no pool or other distractions.  The course is basically empty when he will be visiting, the golf is of the highest quality, so the course simply fits his lifestyle better than a traditional, local country club.

[Richard Choi]

TD,

I hope you take the job in Korea. I am pretty sure we you are aware how golf-crazy that country is right now. Although available land is at PREMIUM, it would really be exciting to see what you can create in a country with predominantly mountaineous topography.

Is the project on the main peninsula or on Jeju Island?

Pretty darn cool...

[Jim Colton]

Local private clubs used to be the haven of professional men.  They went on the weekend, played golf with other well connected, professional men in their neighborhood.  The clubs also offered ammenities for their wives and children ie. pools, social clubs, social events.  The private club was designed to be a lifestyle choice.

Today, family life is very, very different.  Families are now super busy 7 days a week.  Kids are involved in a variety of activities and need to be driven to those activities.  Women are now fully part of the workforce and work just as many hours as their husbands.  There are many, many more social and entertainment opportunities for families such as television, the internet, theme parks, sporting events, etc.

All of that takes away from the time a family spends at a private country club.  Instead, I think what you'll see is guys taking trips to a remote golfing sites like Sand Hills, Bandon, Ballyneal and others, and simply binge on golf for 4 or 5 days.  Then, they fly back to their lives at home and all that they have to offer.

A good friend of mine is doing just that.  He LOVES golf, would play it every day if he could.  But, he can't.  He is in his mid 30's, has two kids, works like a dog at a very good job.  His weekends are maxed out either with work or family.  He wants to make sure when he is not working, he is spending quality time with his kids and wife.  So he has played little local golf.  Instead, his intention is to join a private club at a remote site and visit there perhaps twice a year and just play golf all day long.

For him, this private club offers everything he could want, golf and only golf.  There is lodging on site, no pool or other distractions.  The course is basically empty when he will be visiting, the golf is of the highest quality, so the course simply fits his lifestyle better than a traditional, local country club.

Jim,

This guy you're referring to sounds like a stand-up guy.