[mike_malone]

  I judge courses by how much fun they are. "Fun" for me is the chance to make a shot, to plan an attack.  This course has the least amount of fun I can imagine. I made the following observations while playing there yesterday. Normally I don't go into this much detail on a course I did not enjoy. BTW  I shot a normal score for me.

   1--nondescript par 5 opener; Let's get the parallel OB and/ or hazard issue out of the way right away. It exists on virtually every hole. I lost more balls in one day then I do all year at my club. The bottomline for me is that it is just not fun!

  2- the short par 4 where the fairway ends abruptly without a natural reason.

  3-A par 5 with a hazard pinching in in an odd place. It affects the short hitter or the mishit drive causing a short iron layup which leaves an unlikely chance to make to the green.

  4 Water left, bunkers right. There was at least some angle to the landing area. The angle seemed to be set to avoid the office complex beyond.Of course you then have a forced carry over water to the green with OB left.

 5 Forced carry short par 3 with the required left bunker to catch any attempt at a bailout.

 6--Through the goalposts with offices left over a short forced carry. Our host alerts a player that there is wasteland right followed by more wasteland. That is the first time I have ever heard that!

 7- We were advised to hit short of the divot mix canisters in the middle of the fairway--another first for me! Also to layup short of the blind water hazard. The approach was another forced carry over water and then over bunkers before the green.
 
 8 short 3 with evergreen in the way. We hit from a very narrow tee.

 9- relatively normal hole except for that modern concept of raising up the fairway to obscure the cartpath with a hazard just left of the path.

   I did not intend to comment on every hole but the course was relentless!!


 10- short forced carry on the left with the required humps on the right and bunkers beyond that on the right to give you that directional thing.The approach was another forced carry, BUT THE GREEN WAS NICE.

 11-At this point I said to our host that there are some very good players as members since they do very well in the interclub matches. He then told me proudly that the 151 slope from the back is the highest in the Golf Assn. of Phila.
     The hole is a dogleg left par 5; OB left.with a forced layup for most and of course the layup is blind and has bunkering short of the hazard to increase the fun. It had a nice large green with sections and some slope.

 12--Another forced carry 3 -150 yards.

 13--Serpentine and narrow teeing area, forced carries for teeshot and approach. There a small bailout area just short and left. It was welcomed!

 14-My favorite hole. It was a wide to narrow tree lined teeshot and a totally bunkerless hole. You could actually decide what you wanted to do and understood and accepted the consequences.The fairway had a nice right to left slope as well.

  15-Pleasant drive with another unnatural fairway interruption

  16--Par 3 with bunkers on 3 sides and a hazard on the open side. At last I hoped---I bet that green is angled to create some interest. Alas it was not!

  17 Another forced carry over an environmental area from a teebox accessible only by a walking bridge. These seem so out of place in surburban Phila.The approach had rough short of the green again.

  18-Named "The King" (Palmer design) We were told that the toughest hole was saved for the last. Our advice was that we must hit a straight long drive between the trees which will leave a 180 carry over the crossing hazard with OB left (or maybe he said right)." It just punishes you". If you mishit at all then you have a blind layup with a 9 iron (oops! I hit an 8, but did finish 3 feet short of the hazard) At the green were the cookie cutter bunkers that graced the entire course.


   As we drove back (what did you expect? walking?) we went by the putting green again. I noticed this time the huge containment mounds that sat along the edge of the green.

   Interestingly, this course got easier as you approached the greens. Most were of modest slope or contour and there was no elevation change that creates difficult up and down play.




  The reason I played the course which I had played before years ago was to confirm my attitude about why I don't want penal features added to my home course that are inconsistent with the original strategic design concepts.

    BTW my host is a fine gentleman with no interest in our goofy website and I am bringing him to my club.

 
     I believe this course has been recognized as among the top in the area .


   But for me it might be the epitome of a Doak 0. It seems to have been designed to annoy and punish you!

[mike_malone]

 Now I know why Steve Shaffer has been in therapy! More years at LuLu will be needed to heal the scars of his previous membership!

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

The key thing about Commonwealth is what you mentioned -- there are plenty of forced shots along the routing and pity the player who doesn't get sufficient distance off the tee. The course is simply too demanding for the lot of players who play the game.

I'm curious to know how their overall membership has remained intact and is capable in securing prospective members to join.

[mike_malone]

 Matt,

   They seem to work hard at the image thing and there may be enough golfers who want to be punished.

   The problem was not so much length as width or interruption of the playing field.

[Bob Harris]

Commonwealth has always attracted good players. They have at least 30 players 5 or under and half of them are under 2.  In fact, they won the Golf Assoc of Phila. team championship last year and came in second this year. 

[wsmorrison]

They let Howard Eskin into the club    I have never felt the need to see the club for the reasons Mikey Malone stated and because I might run into the Burger King there 

[JSlonis]

I have a few friends who are members there and I ave played the course numerous times in competitions.  It is indeed a very difficult course, and ss Mayday has stated, there are a lot of strange things about it...A lot of water, many environmental areas, and one of my least favorite 18th holes anywhere.  It almost as if they finished building 17 holes and forgot they had to get back toward the clubhouse somehow. 

Wayne,

That's funny!!

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Technically speaking, Eskin was an associate member on someone's corporate membership. As was Charles Barkley and the other 76ers who golfed and the Phillies(and the golfers on the visiting teams they sent over) who golfed. I have good memories of playing with Del Unser and Larry Bowa of the Phillies and Scott Williams of the 76ers. Unfortunately, the golf course beat me up although I did learn course management. It's a great course for single digit handicappers. With 14 forced carries and OB and lateral hazards on just about every hole, it's just not an everyday course for mid handicappers. I had to be really on my game, or what's left of my game, to score in the low 80s. The 18th hole is quite frustrating It's just not a feel good hole no matter how well you played the other 17. To walk off the course with a double or higher frequently makes one question their sanity. There's a reason why the pro shop is the number one seller of Titleist balls in the area.

[John Moore II]

Michael--Sounds like a sporty place, you should go back and play just to take some pictures to post here, so we can see just how bad it is.

[Kyle Harris]

Mike,

Probably good that you missed the shamrock shaped bunker on 9....

[Bob Harris]

The shamrock shaped bunker is in honor of the original owner and developer. (obviously Irish)  The other local course he owns, Blue Bell has a similar bunker on the 9th hole.

[mike_malone]

 I would think that better players who can control the flight of the  ball more often might actually find this course easier. They don't need to decide between the ground game or the aerial game and the greens and surrounds are meek.

[Patrick_Mucci]

 

   1--nondescript par 5 opener; Let's get the parallel OB and/ or hazard issue out of the way right away. It exists on virtually every hole. I lost more balls in one day then I do all year at my club. The bottomline for me is that it is just not fun!

I like it as an opening hole.
The OB is so far left that you really have to hit a BAD shot to get there.

  2- the short par 4 where the fairway ends abruptly without a natural reason.

There's far more to the hole than what you typed.
Tee sits high above the fairway, green sits high above the fairway.

  3-A par 5 with a hazard pinching in in an odd place. It affects the short hitter or the mishit drive causing a short iron layup which leaves an unlikely chance to make to the green.

I'd agree that the hole needs to be revised, but, a par 5 hole that requires good execution on all three shots can't be all bad.

  4 Water left, bunkers right. There was at least some angle to the landing area. The angle seemed to be set to avoid the office complex beyond.Of course you then have a forced carry over water to the green with OB left.

Again, the OB is so far left that it's not in play.
It's a great hole, hit a driver or lay back with a 3-wood or long iron.
Risk/Reward at it's best.
 5 Forced carry short par 3 with the required left bunker to catch any attempt at a bailout.
Sounds like a lot of par 3's that golfers rave about.

 6--Through the goalposts with offices left over a short forced carry. Our host alerts a player that there is wasteland right followed by more wasteland. That is the first time I have ever heard that!

This is one of my favorite holes.
It requires a very good drive.
And, the location of the drive impacts the approach to an angled green protected by a fronting creek.  I love the hole
 7- We were advised to hit short of the divot mix canisters in the middle of the fairway--another first for me! Also to layup short of the blind water hazard. The approach was another forced carry over water and then over bunkers before the green.
It's an OK hole, demanding tee and second shot
 
 8 short 3 with evergreen in the way. We hit from a very narrow tee.

It's a nice, short par 3.
 9- relatively normal hole except for that modern concept of raising up the fairway to obscure the cartpath with a hazard just left of the path.

It's a strong hole tee to green

 10- short forced carry on the left with the required humps on the right and bunkers beyond that on the right to give you that directional thing.The approach was another forced carry, BUT THE GREEN WAS NICE.
It's a nice hole putting a premium on the placement of your drive

 11-At this point I said to our host that there are some very good players as members since they do very well in the interclub matches. He then told me proudly that the 151 slope from the back is the highest in the Golf Assn. of Phila.
     The hole is a dogleg left par 5; OB left.with a forced layup for most and of course the layup is blind and has bunkering short of the hazard to increase the fun. It had a nice large green with sections and some slope.

The OB is SO far left as to not really be in play.
It's a bit of a contrived hole, but, an interesting hole
 12--Another forced carry 3 -150 yards.

It's a good par 3
 13--Serpentine and narrow teeing area, forced carries for teeshot and approach. There a small bailout area just short and left. It was welcomed!

It's a demanding hole with an awesome approach shot to a challenging green.  Originally it was a par 5.
 14-My favorite hole. It was a wide to narrow tree lined teeshot and a totally bunkerless hole. You could actually decide what you wanted to do and understood and accepted the consequences.The fairway had a nice right to left slope as well.
The tee shot is THE shot on this hole

  15-Pleasant drive with another unnatural fairway interruption
It's an interesting dogleg with a good green.
I"m not crazy about the hole.

  16--Par 3 with bunkers on 3 sides and a hazard on the open side. At last I hoped---I bet that green is angled to create some interest. Alas it was not!
It's an OK par 3

  17 Another forced carry over an environmental area from a teebox accessible only by a walking bridge. These seem so out of place in surburban Phila.The approach had rough short of the green again.

Mayday, you can't ignore the environmental challenges.
I think this is another good hole, off the tee and at the green.
  18-Named "The King" (Palmer design) We were told that the toughest hole was saved for the last. Our advice was that we must hit a straight long drive between the trees which will leave a 180 carry over the crossing hazard with OB left (or maybe he said right)." It just punishes you". If you mishit at all then you have a blind layup with a 9 iron (oops! I hit an 8, but did finish 3 feet short of the hazard) At the green were the cookie cutter bunkers that graced the entire course.

I think the hole is poorly designed.
The narrow DZ is absurd in light of the surrounds and the resultant shot into the green.  The hole needs to be widened at the DZ, by a wide margin.


As we drove back (what did you expect? walking?) we went by the putting green again. I noticed this time the huge containment mounds that sat along the edge of the green.

What's wrong with that ?

   Interestingly, this course got easier as you approached the greens. Most were of modest slope or contour and there was no elevation change that creates difficult up and down play.

Maybe they flattened them since I last played there, but, the greens had plenty of elevation changes, contour and slope.

  The reason I played the course which I had played before years ago was to confirm my attitude about why I don't want penal features added to my home course that are inconsistent with the original strategic design concepts.

Aren't most of the penal features the result of environmental issues ?

As to the original design, CN is a remake of an old course, or two old courses.

    BTW my host is a fine gentleman with no interest in our goofy website and I am bringing him to my club.

 
     I believe this course has been recognized as among the top in the area .
   But for me it might be the epitome of a Doak 0. It seems to have been designed to annoy and punish you!

I like it.

If you don't drive it straight it can be difficult, and it does have a number of carries, but, few, if any are heroic.

[mike_malone]

 Pat,

   If I responded like you responded you would slaughter me. What's with the "nice" hole and "good" hole ?

[Mike_Cirba]

Pat,

I can't believe you're so intimately familiar with Commonwealth National!   

Man..you're sumpthin!   You do get around. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat,

   If I responded like you responded you would slaughter me. What's with the "nice" hole and "good" hole ?

Mayday,

To elaborate on each hole would take more time than I can devote at the present time.

In general, I agree with you regarding the 3rd and 18th hole.

I think the 13th hole needs to have the green redone.
It was OK as a par 5, but, it's too severe for a long par 4 with a very difficult approach.

I don't like the severe dogleg nature of the11th and 15th holes, but like the balance of the golf course.

If you want to discuss a hole or two, in depth, I'd be happy to accomodate you.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Re: the 13th green

The late Ed Seay and the project architect Erik Larsen visited the club during the 10th anniversary year in 2000. They had no objection to enlarging the green. Since this is not a member owned club, ownership has chosen not to do so. Moreover, I think the lower handicappers on the advisory green committee were not in favor of it.

Re: the 18th hole

This hole has been modified somewhat over the last few years by moving the cart path deeper into the woods on the right side and flatening the landing area at the end of the fairway. I don't think there is much room to widen the fairway. Seay and Larsen said there was nothing wrong with having a difficult finishing hole. In general, both liked the way the course has matured.

It's a great course for single digit handicappers and that's why the club has attracted many of these players. Membership is full or almost full in these difficult times. The club has a good mix of members, a nice clubhouse,a decent range and short game area, good food and an open membership policy.

[John Moore II]

I would like to see some good quality pictures of this course. Based on the reviews, the course is either terrible (Michael) or OK (Pat). The photos on the clubs website are not very telling either. Its hard for any of us to comment on what can be considered about the course with no visuals.

[mike_malone]

I didn't say it was terrible. It is just no fun to play, imo. I'm inclined to courses that challenge you after a mishit, not punish you.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Mike and Pat,

Can you imagine how much more difficult Commonwealth would be with more challenging undulating greens?

The course is so difficult from tee to green that the greens were designed to be subtle for the most part. I would say that 13, 17 and 18 are the most difficult.

It is a penal course, no doubt about it.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I'm not Aidenn Bradley or Joe Bausch. Here are some pics from my recent visit:

Short game practice area


Driving Range


View of first fairway from left bunker


View from second tee


View from third fairway


View from third fairway about 150y to green


View from fourth fairway about 150y to green


View from fifth tee about 150y


View from sixth tee


View of sixth green from less than 100y


View from seventh tee


Vew of seventh green from about 150y

[Mark_Fine]

I have played Commonwealth National a few times including opening day when Mr. Palmer was there.  On that day my one playing partner was the construction superintent for the project as well as one of the key shapers.  What a fascinating round to hear how the course was designed and constructed.  I don't think Mr. Palmer was on site too much other than for photo shoots    I will say that the course is not as bad as Mike makes it out to be.  It's a 5 or 6 on the Doak scale in my book.  It is geared toward the better player in a similar way to a course like Galloway National.  Galloway National is an excellent course but it will destroy the average golfer who won't have too much fun.  Commonwealth is not of the same quality design but the better the player, the more you will like it (to a certain extent ) . 

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Palmer shot an 80 from the tips on opening day in May, 1990. Erik Larsen, now chief of design for Palmer in place of the late Ed Seay, was the project architect and was on site a lot as he divided his time between Commonwealth, Laurel Creek and Blue Bell, all of which are Palmer courses and were built around the same time.

The club has attracted many low handicappers who enjoy the degree of difficulty the course presents.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

More pics:


View of seventh green


View from eigth tee about 110y to green


View from ninth tee(the bunker on right is a trademark shamrock bunker from Palmer Design)



View of ninth green from about 110y


View from tenth tee-dogleg left par4


View from eleventh tee-dogleg left par5


View from eleventh fairway about 250y to green


Fake coyotes are sprinkled throughout the course and have effectively chased the geese and their droppings


View from twelfth tee about 160y- site of my hole in one


View of twelfth green


More pics to follow later

[Ronald Montesano]

Is anyone else seeing red rectangles where Steve claims to have glued his pictures?  Is Palmer Design battling Rulewich for who can build the toughest courses around?  Is that all there is to life?

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