American Parkland-What does that mean to you?

[W.H. Cosgrove]

I was reading an article in a small publication in my home town and the author was extolling the virtues of a course designed as an "American Parkland" design. 

What would the features be that you would expect to see in a course of this nature?

[TEPaul]

Mr. Cosgrove:

I'll get into some of the details of it tomorrow but the term "Park" (parkland) in this particular context goes back to England in the 18th century particularly amongst some of those famous English landscape gardners or landscape architects like William Kent, Lancelot "Capability" Brown, Humphrey Repton who did some of those famous massive English estates on a grand scale of hundreds of acres. Blenheim is an example. Those estate lands were called "parks" and that's where the term parkland came from in the context that was applied to the style of golf course called "parkland". In some cases some of the late 19th century English golf courses were just done right into those preexisting "parks" or parkland estates.

[Jim Nugent]

Courses designed by Willie Park, or in his overall style. 

[Sean_A]

My idealized version of what a parkland course has large oaks and chestnut trees  (or whatever the grand trees of the area are) lightly scattered about.  Maybe a pond and/or a stream.  Light rough, say like a meadow with natural flowering allowed to flourish.  Gently rolling land that can often seem flatish.  In this setting is built a course.  If you look at the Cal Club thread that is a version of what I would call proper parkland golf. 

My real experience of a parkland course is a place choked out with trees most of which are ugly quick growing things or not in the correct setting.  The archie I think of most when parkland golf comes to mind is Ross, but that is only because I grew up on a Ross course and the many other Ross's in the area.  Thus I learned early the Ross principles of design and that has forever influenced my ideas of design for good and bad. 

Ciao 

[Adam Clayman]

P-land implies defined corridors. Dictated lines of play that assist the str8 hitter.

[Doug Ralston]

P-land implies defined corridors. Dictated lines of play that assist the str8 hitter.

Yeah? Here is a 'parkland' hole. Where ya hittin it? See any options?

<a href="http://img402.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc020211yj4.jpg"

Doug

PS: Probably still didn't get it, but look anyway.

[Andy Troeger]

Doug,
I'm not really sure I'd think of that as a parkland hole. Parkland seems to imply something like Oakland Hills where there are holes through corridors of trees than the picture you posted. Maybe its just my understanding of the definition.

How far is it to the far bit of fairway, is it possible to carry it that far and leave a pitch for the approach?

[Adam Clayman]

I do not get pix on my handheld but is Doug actually implying my opinion is wrong?

[Peter Pallotta]

Adam - I believe Doug is indeed so implying, yes.

W.H. - I think Sean's idealized version describes very well what an American parkland course can be.  The way I tend to put my preference is that the trees frame vistas, not golf holes.

Peter

 

[Andy Troeger]

Thankfully Broadmoor CC in Indy has removed many trees since these photos were taken, but this to me is about the definition of a parkland design. After looking at the Cal Club thread I can see that applying too even if it's a different style tree than I'm used to.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/broadmoor1.html

[W.H. Cosgrove]

Thanks guys.....what would the features, maintenance practices that you would expect to see?

Would it be Augusta National and closely mown wall to wall? Or would areas be allowed to appear wild with grasses and flowers allowed to flourish?  Lush and green or some areas allowed to grow brown? 

And finally do we think that the idea of the American Parkland can be allowed to change over time?

[Ally Mcintosh]

I think you're all getting too specific...

"Parkland" is any course in the UK and Ireland which is not heathland, headland / seaside, links or moorland... It is inland, usually on non-sandy soil more suitable for farming and lush vegetation...

The more upmarket parkland courses are often through old country house estates with plenty of specimen trees but these are by no means the only ones...

"American Parkland" to someone in the UK is an inland course as described above with loads of shallow / big bunkers and water and very defined mounding.....

I believe This is how the definition is applied in the UK & I.... It may be very differently applied by those of you on that side of the pond...

[TEPaul]

At NGLA in a couple of their old photo albums there are a number of fascinating photos of early golfers hitting shots in what can definitely be described as a "parkland" setting. There is no evidence on these photos as to where they are or who the people practicing golf shots are. It could be in America around the turn of the century or it could be abroad (probably rural England). The thing that struck me about the photos is the immaculateness of the tree arrangements and particularly everywhere you can see (which is quite distant) the grass is very closely mown like the fairways of a golf course. The irony is it isn't a golf course, it's a massive "parkland" estate somewhere. In the background you can even see the mansion. To me, this is the look of what became known as a "parkland" golf course, whether abroad in the likes of rural and inland England or Ireland or even inland Scotland or America or anywhere else that attempted to duplicate this original classic English landscape architecture look on a massive scale.

The look of the first five holes of The Creek Club in Long Island are very much within a "parkland" setting that was architecturally designed that way for the estate of Paul Cravath who owned the 600 acre estate and lived there previous to selling part of it to The Creek Club in the early 1920s.

Gil Hanse and I who consult there have recommended to the club to both keep and even enhance that remarkable preexisting "parkland" look on those first five holes which is traditionally very clean looking and close mown throughout. We feel in this way it will enhance the history and diverse look of the place and serve to enhance the distinction between the look of holes #6-#8 and then #15-#18 which could be described as something like "inland links" in look with large areas of high waving fescue. Below this on holes #9-#14 which are down next to the Long Island Sound, the recommendation has been to remove most of the vegetation surounding those lower so-called "seaside" holes and expose the natural sand areas of that section of the course.

In this way, golfers get the feeling they are experiencing three entirely different settings and auras and the interesting news is this is the way it was before the golf course was built there in the early 1920s.

[Doug Ralston]

I do not get pix on my handheld but is Doug actually implying my opinion is wrong?

Adam;

Not entirely, no. Just not completely right either.

This picture, from Yateville Lake State Park [hole #2]. Parkland may indeed imply trees, and define corridors etc. But that is not all that is available in parkland type properties, and if you have ever walked in the Appalachian mountains, for example, you will see lots of this 'mixxed' aspect properties, with lots of architectural options. It need not be just 'target golf'.

The hole provided has some very distinct options, either playing around the dogleg, having a shorter approach but with disaster if you go long; or playing left and shorter off the tee, having a longer approach across the chasm with a distinct 'bailout' long. Or some of both along the range toward the dogleg. Fun hole.

Adam, I have seen the courses you describe, but others much less strraighted.

Doug

[Jim_Kennedy]

W.H.,

Nothing too wild, a definite lack of obtrusiveness.
Impossible to miss the manicured nature of the area, in total.
Some parallel holes.
....and the one factor that means most to me- quiet.

[jonathan_becker]

I used to caddy at Butler National in Chicago.  For those of you that are familiar, that is the epitome of "American Parkland."

BTW - This is my first post.  I am pumped to be here !

[Doug Ralston]

Doug,
I'm not really sure I'd think of that as a parkland hole. Parkland seems to imply something like Oakland Hills where there are holes through corridors of trees than the picture you posted. Maybe its just my understanding of the definition.

How far is it to the far bit of fairway, is it possible to carry it that far and leave a pitch for the approach?

Andy;

Sorry, didn't see your question at 1st. Yes, a long hitter MIGHT reach that corner. The risk is obvious, the pitch is about 80-90yds from there. The green from that angle is reasonably long but narrow, where a bad pitch left of long is dead.  There is a LOT more fairway down there left than it appears. From it, a shot of 130-170yd across the chasm, with the hillock backstop, is really the safer option. Obviously, the further right and long you hit it, the shorter the 2nd, but the less protected.

Please remember when I describe the options, the average player here is just your weekend golf buff, likely no handicap, and he is looking to hit his second to the green, period. If he hits the fairway below, he will like be happy. He NOW faces the next problem. Unlikely he is thinking about where along that line he wants to be for his second.

Truth be told, you can get even closer to the chasm by going left, but again it has some downhill incline and going in will be lost.

Many a lost ball can be found by the dedicated ball hunter at this course, but listen to the laughs and groans of these guys when they play these tough [for them] but fun course. My favorite still!

Doug

[Jeff Goldman]

Does "Parkland" imply a more landscaped design, less natural, more created in a sense, as with an English garden? 

[Doug Ralston]

Does "Parkland" imply a more landscaped design, less natural, more created in a sense, as with an English garden? 

It does not 'mean' anything, in the sense of a clear definition. Thus the question that titles the thread.

I chose to interpret it in a wider sense, while some want to relate it to the type of 'park' one has in a city; trees, ponds, and walkways for people. Still, it is important to realize that multifaceted lands allow for lots of options when constructing a golf course. Perhaps far more [I did NOT say better] options than 'heathland'. Yes, tree-lined fairways do indeed force shots into more narrow lines, but they are NOT the only option of parklands.

Ah, the evil tree.

Doug

[BCowan]

At NGLA in a couple of their old photo albums there are a number of fascinating photos of early golfers hitting shots in what can definitely be described as a "parkland" setting. There is no evidence on these photos as to where they are or who the people practicing golf shots are. It could be in America around the turn of the century or it could be abroad (probably rural England). The thing that struck me about the photos is the immaculateness of the tree arrangements and particularly everywhere you can see (which is quite distant) the grass is very closely mown like the fairways of a golf course. The irony is it isn't a golf course, it's a massive "parkland" estate somewhere. In the background you can even see the mansion. To me, this is the look of what became known as a "parkland" golf course, whether abroad in the likes of rural and inland England or Ireland or even inland Scotland or America or anywhere else that attempted to duplicate this original classic English landscape architecture look on a massive scale.

The look of the first five holes of The Creek Club in Long Island are very much within a "parkland" setting that was architecturally designed that way for the estate of Paul Cravath who owned the 600 acre estate and lived there previous to selling part of it to The Creek Club in the early 1920s.

Gil Hanse and I who consult there have recommended to the club to both keep and even enhance that remarkable preexisting "parkland" look on those first five holes which is traditionally very clean looking and close mown throughout. We feel in this way it will enhance the history and diverse look of the place and serve to enhance the distinction between the look of holes #6-#8 and then #15-#18 which could be described as something like "inland links" in look with large areas of high waving fescue. Below this on holes #9-#14 which are down next to the Long Island Sound, the recommendation has been to remove most of the vegetation surounding those lower so-called "seaside" holes and expose the natural sand areas of that section of the course.

In this way, golfers get the feeling they are experiencing three entirely different settings and auras and the interesting news is this is the way it was before the golf course was built there in the early 1920s.

   I like this post and think this thread should be given another look.  US Parklands imo are automatically thought of as tree lined.  You can discuss soil type as being clay to clay loam.  It seems many of the original US Golden age courses had very few trees on them, so would Farmland be a better term to use (none estates).  If TEPaul's definition is correct, ''Those estate lands were called "parks" and that's where the term parkland came from in the context that was applied to the style of golf course called "parkland"'.  I think possibly Parklands has too broad of a definition?  Thoughts....  hybrids....  

[Jon Wiggett]

Ben,

parkland normally has a very open aspect to it with GROUPS of trees integrated into the landscape. The idea was to allow the visitor specific views of the surrounding area. Many courses claiming to be parkland do not have the open vista aspect so central to parklands and are in reality tree-lined or woodland courses.

Jon

[Jeff_Brauer]

Similar opinion of the meaning of parkland.  Think of it as mostly in the Midwest, started with only a few clumps on natural trees, and then planted with trees, but never enough to achieve "woodland course" status of those courses in naturally and fully wooded areas.  In the best ones, the random clumps of trees are mimicked by the planting, rather than loads of straight lines down each fairway, which was sadly overdone.

I think Merion would classify as a parkland course, among more famous courses, to give an example.

[Brad Treadwell]

I stumbled across this thread searching for a definition of what a "Parkland" course is.  Some of the numbskulls at my circa 1920's club (that has been choked out by trees bordering both sides of most holes) have tried to counter some recent "tree management" by saying "it's a Parkland course", implying it is supposed to be lined with trees.  Found the definition of "Parkland" in the Oxford Dictionaries to be helpful:

"Open land consisting of fields and scattered groups of trees."

So how does the average, uneducated golfer make the leap to "Parkland" meaning tree lined, narrow fairways?  (Maybe I've answered my own question....uneducated).  Then I came across this definition of "Parkland Golf" on some random golf website:

"A parkland course is a golf course in a lush, inland setting, one with well-manicured and watered fairways and rough and greens. There might be plenty of elevation change around such a course, but even if there is, a parkland course's fairways are generally flat, lacking the knobs and knolls and weird bounces of links fairways. A parkland course is usually in a treed landscape, fairways often tree-lined." 

Sounds awful to me....I prefer the proper Oxford definition. 

[BCowan]

Brad,

  I prefer the Oxford definition as well.  The irony of this statement ''one with well-manicured'' which is tougher to achieve with tree lined holes.  Sun + Water+ air = improved turf

[Joe Bausch]

I wonder if the perception of a parkland golf course in the US will change at all after the 2016 US Open.