[Jed Peters]

Here is a new toy for you gaj and gajets... http://www.eez-read.com/images.html Nothing would do more to speed up play than fewer putts.  This item should be legal soon as all it does is once again take the place of a professional caddie. 

Direct from the web site:  After just a few holes, golfers will learn to rely on EEZ-READ™ to read their putts and build confidence in their putting. Using EEZ-READ™ will also speed up play as players spend less time circling the hole or crouching behind their ball to read their line.

There is no way that'll be legal.

Reason is there's a Decision against it already, only with using a bottled water on the green instead of that thingy.

[Dan King]

Tony Ristola writes:
For golf equipment, balls and implements... no. As the old line goes... I think th-th-th-that's all folks!

Somewhere in my travels I saw a book or Web site or something that listed all the various gadgets and equipment the USGA has outlawed in the past. There was a lot.

Here are a few I found with a simple search:
The ball finder by Scout

The Suunto G9 Golf watch

The Layerco Poly Max Extreme

The Desperado Golf Ball

Spin Doctor's reverse groove insert for wedges


JWinick writes:
Please define your position.   Rangefinders, GPS, yardage markers are out.  What about caddies giving you distances?  That's allowed or not?   Or is the game of golf now about who is the best guesser of distances?

I don't want equality. I want those that earn an advantage to be able to use their advantage.

Let's assume you have practiced for years and become a better ball striker than I am. Should I be allowed to use gadgets to overcome your physical advantage? Should I use the Desperado ball, the ball finder by Scout, the Poly Max Extreme, etc... to overcome your physical advantage?

I'm guessing your answer is no. Well I am a superior mental player. If i mis-club and fly a green, I am good at putting it behind me and continuing with my game. You probably aren't as good at that and will let it bother you for a number of shots afterwards. You want gadgets to overcome your deficiency, just like I want gadgets to overcome mine. The difference is I realize my using these gadgets is bad for the game, you fail to recognize how your favored gadgets hurt the game.

[I have no idea if i am a mentally stronger golfer that you. I just assume from your desire to use mental crutches you are weak mentally, just as if I showed up with all sorts of longer balls and inserts you would assume I was a weaker physical golfer.]

Tony Ristola writes:
Paul and other anti-Toy proponents,

Where do you put caddies in this equation then?
They offer more input than just yardage.

Hypothetical: On a course you haven't played, you're in a match... one guy has a caddy, the other a yardage guide... you're playing to "win"; what's the difference between the two?

Just curious.

I want the slippery slope to end.

We keep getting all these gadgets because your side says you allow this, therefore you must allow that. You even use the claim that all these various gadgets and tools will speed up play. We were told years ago buggies, yardage books, yardage on sprinklers, 150 yard stakes, signage, etc... will speed up play. You fooled some of us before. But I'm really not as stupid as I look. These gadgets, just like all the other improvements will slow down the game.

john_foley writes:
I just don't get why people can accpet that one person likes blondes while the other prefers brunettes.

I can accept that. My problem is when it takes you fifteen extra minutes to play golf with a blonde than with a redhead. Now we got problems.

Cheers,
Dan King

There is no "slippery slope" toward loss of liberties, only a long staircase where each step downward must first be tolerated by the American people and their leaders.
 --Alan K. Simpson

[John Kavanaugh]

Dan,

I like to listen to recorded books off my iPod.  Do you believe this is equal to reading with my own eyes?

[Dan King]

John Kavanaugh writes:
I like to listen to recorded books off my iPod.  Do you believe this is equal to reading with my own eyes?

No.

Cheers,
Dan King

I have never been hurt by anything I didn't say.
 --Calvin Coolidge

[Tony Ristola]

Dan: I referred to the expansion of legal devices.

If the USGA hadn't allowed lasers etc., it wouldn't have bothered me. (I don't keep a handicap).

I've never used the argument that it speeds play.
Nobody has touched the following. C'mon guys.... give it a go. I'd love to hear the rationale.

"Where do you put caddies in this equation then?
They offer more input than just yardage.

Hypothetical: On a course you haven't played, you're in a match... one guy has a caddy, the other a yardage guide... you're playing to "win"; what's the difference between the two?

Just curious."

[John Kavanaugh]

Dan,

But it is so much faster not having to figure out emotions on my own.  It's great not having to wait until the end of a sentence to see if it a question or exclamation mark.  I just listen to the actors inflection.  Come to think of it, why don't writers put question or exclamation marks at the beginning of a sentence so we don't have to wait to tell our minds how to sound?

[JWinick]

Dan:

It's pretty ridiculous to infer that someone who uses a legal aid to ascertain the distance from the pin is mentally weak.   If anyone is mentally weak, it's the person who doesn't try to use any legitimate tool to help their game.   

I suppose PGA tour professionals are mentally weak because they know the precise distance from the flag on any shot, and the distances between any hazards.   

[John Kavanaugh]

Dan:

It's pretty ridiculous to infer that someone who uses a legal aid to ascertain the distance from the pin is mentally weak.   If anyone is mentally weak, it's the person who doesn't try to use any legitimate tool to help their game.   

I suppose PGA tour professionals are mentally weak because they know the precise distance from the flag on any shot, and the distances between any hazards.   

JWinick,

Do you honestly believe that a yardage book is as accurate as a range finder?

[George Pazin]

If anyone is mentally weak, it's the person who doesn't try to use any legitimate tool to help their game.

First you call anyone who enjoys the challenge of playing golf sans instrumentation of Luddite, now you're calling them mentally weak.

Are you trying to be offensive, or does it just come out naturally?

[Dan King]

Tony Ristola writes:
Dan: I referred to the expansion of legal devices.

Do you know what used to be an illegal device? GPS devices. What is to stop the USGA from making all of these formerly illegal devices legal?

Nobody has touched the following. C'mon guys.... give it a go. I'd love to hear the rationale.

I thought I did. Stop the slippery slope.

An argument I could make is humans are fallible. A caddy may give a golfer more confidence, but he won't remove doubt. There is always the potential for conflict between what the player sees and what the caddy tells him. Play with a GPS device long enough, you will remove that lack of confidence. You will always trust the GPS and not trust your eyes. It will remove yet another mental barrier in playing the game -- something I imagine you see as a good thing and I see as a bad thing.

John Kavanaugh writes:
But it is so much faster not having to figure out emotions on my own.  It's great not having to wait until the end of a sentence to see if it a question or exclamation mark.  I just listen to the actors inflection.

So you are agreeing with me? They are not equal?

Cheers,
Dan King

He told me just to keep the ball low.
 --Chi Chi Rodriguez (on the advice his caddie gave him on a crucial putt)

[John Kavanaugh]

Of course I agree with you.  I won't even tell someone I read a book that I listened to on an electronic device.  I know we have alot of readers on this site and was tossing out a self-depreciating softball to make a point.

[Kalen Braley]

I think Dan is really hitting on some really important things in this thread...namely the relationship between you and the course.

On a new course, its an adventure of sorts to take it all in and figure it out.  Robbing yourself of that journey takes away from the fun of it.

I like figuring out where I think I can hit the ball.
I like figuring out if I can make that carry
I like playing an improvised shot that requires running the ball on the ground a ways.
I like figuring out which way the greens breaks with conflicting sensory information.

Sure everyone loves to shoot a great number, but golf is more than that.  Its more than a pencil and scorecard! 

[Dan King]

JWinick writes:
I suppose PGA tour professionals are mentally weak because they know the precise distance from the flag on any shot, and the distances between any hazards.   

Yes, that and many other reasons.

John Kavanaugh added to his last post:
Come to think of it, why don't writers put question or exclamation marks at the beginning of a sentence so we don't have to wait to tell our minds how to sound?

¿Do you think that would help?

Cheers,
Dan King

The question isn't who is going to let me; it's who is going to stop me.
 --Ayn Rand

[Dan King]

Ooops, accidentally reposted something a second time. Guess I got to try and come up with a decent quote for this:

Cheers,
Dan King

What a stupid I am.
 --Roberto DeVicenzo

[John Kavanaugh]

I think Tony's question about the caddie supports my argument that green reading devices will also soon be legal.  People who choose to afford caddies now have an unfair advantage of help with reading greens. 

[Tim Bert]

Here is a new toy for you gaj and gajets... http://www.eez-read.com/images.html Nothing would do more to speed up play than fewer putts.  This item should be legal soon as all it does is once again take the place of a professional caddie. 

Direct from the web site:  After just a few holes, golfers will learn to rely on EEZ-READ™ to read their putts and build confidence in their putting. Using EEZ-READ™ will also speed up play as players spend less time circling the hole or crouching behind their ball to read their line.

The problem is that only gives me a small data point based on where I set the thing.  How about a 20 foot long one with levels every 6 inches, so I can get a sense for the subtle movement (or double breakers.)

It would slow my round down way too much to have to set this thing down at 40 individual points to to appropriately assess a long putt.

Now that I know this exists, how could I possibly be expected to read my own putts in the future?

[JWinick]

John:

A Yardage book with the day's pin sheet achieves an accuracy comparable with a range finder.   You just played in a big tournament in Chicago.  Did you know your distances on shots?   I bet you knew the distance for every shot you made.  

You're trying to stake a middle ground, John, and I know it is difficult to do here.   Perhaps, some people have a visceral negative reaction to technology on the golf course.  But, if you're for yardage markers, caddies, yardage books, pin sheets, than how can you be against range finders?  A range finder is just a practical solution that speeds up play and provides a guide in club selection.

Dan:

It's pretty ridiculous to infer that someone who uses a legal aid to ascertain the distance from the pin is mentally weak.   If anyone is mentally weak, it's the person who doesn't try to use any legitimate tool to help their game.   

I suppose PGA tour professionals are mentally weak because they know the precise distance from the flag on any shot, and the distances between any hazards.   

JWinick,

Do you honestly believe that a yardage book is as accurate as a range finder?

[JWinick]

George,

I do not seek to impose my views on how you play the game.   I think it's wonderful that people enjoy playing a round of golf without any assistance.  The anti-techno view seeks to ban these aids to the detriment of the majority of people who enjoy them.  That is a dictatorial point of view.  Calling someone "mentally weak" because they use a legal device is preposterous.   

[John Burzynski]

I just don't understand it.  Last weekend, 10 AM, I am golfing with my foursome.  We get up to the green, an undulating tough to read green with lots of slopes and odd angles.    I am about 25 feet away fromt he hole on the second shelf of the green.

Unbeknownst to my playing partners, I had worked part time doing land surveying while I was in college.  So right there I set up my tripod, transit, theodolite, level, the whole nine yards.  It took me about an hour, but I had the entire green plotted out.  It is so easy to lug around surveying tools in a golf bag, especially when driving a cart.

Of course, my playing partners had already putted out by the time I got everything set up and plotted, and even with that information about the plotted green I STILL three putted, but it was all nothing comared to the grumbling and threats received from the groups behind us.  Whinners.

[John Burzynski]

By the way, sprinkler heads have served me well for decades, I am not a range finder fan but at the same time if I played against someone with a range finder it would not to mee seem to be a disadvantage...we both still have to hit the shot the right distance, and if my partner knows his shot is 153 yards away, well, it is no good if he can't hit his iron to within 10-15 yards anyhow.

[JWinick]

John,

Green reading devices will never be legal and you know that.   The USGA, as has been pointed out, has banned all sorts of technological devices.   Should they go further and look at the golf ball?  Absolutely.  

Regarding caddies, it can be difficult running a tournament in which the best caddies are taken up by the early tee times.  I'm not sure there's anything you can do about that, particularly if the club assigns the caddies randomly.   But, a range finder does equalize that impact.    

I think Tony's question about the caddie supports my argument that green reading devices will also soon be legal.  People who choose to afford caddies now have an unfair advantage of help with reading greens. 

[John Kavanaugh]

John:

A Yardage book with the day's pin sheet achieves an accuracy comparable with a range finder.   You just played in a big tournament in Chicago.  Did you know your distances on shots?   I bet you knew the distance for every shot you made.  

I used the sprinkler heads to tell my caddie why his rangefinder was wrong at least 50% of the time.  Most caddies double bagged which does not work efficiently for yardage advice.  I don't like rangefinders for several reasons none of which applies to cart installed GPS.  A list of things I don't like about rangefinders:

1.  Batteries run low and no I don't have any in my bag.
2.  Sometimes they go "beep" in my backswing.
3.  Sometimes I have to move them when sitting down in a cart.
4.  It contributes to information pollution in that all of a sudden I get to know how far my opponent is from the hole.
5.  It makes golfers look stupid when they pose like General Patton.
6.  It forces me to either cheat or be inconsiderate when at least twice a round an opponent anounces a number that is wrong.
7.  Caddies peak in their blouse at them like it was someone elses blouse.
8.  You can not tell what club you need until you reach your ball.  By using sprinkler heads I know how far I am seconds earlier.
9.  I grew up playing off feel and don't know how hard to swing at a 75 yd 56 degree wedge.  I do know how hard to hit from half way between the 150 marker and the green.
10. The first golfer I ever saw use one is Amish.

[Dan King]

Jwinick writes:
Green reading devices will never be legal and you know that.   The USGA, as has been pointed out, has banned all sorts of technological devices.

I had very similar confidence the USGA would never flip flop about GPS.

Cheers,
Dan King

There is nothing constant in this world but inconsistency.
 --Jonathan Swift

[John Kavanaugh]

Jwinick writes:
Green reading devices will never be legal and you know that.   The USGA, as has been pointed out, has banned all sorts of technological devices.

I had very similar confidence the USGA would never flip flop about GPS.

Cheers,
Dan King

There is nothing constant in this world but inconsistency.
 --Jonathan Swift

Exactly...Can you believe the USGA now allows you to identify your ball in a hazard.  That would have been hard to foresee given there was relief in place for making a mistake.  Allowing someone to putt better, enjoy the game more and play faster while doing it seems to make much more sense.

[John Kavanaugh]

It really would be quite simple to invent a "caddie in your pocket" device with built in GPS that could tell you how to play each shot as you stand over your ball.  I think modern mapping with an accurate hole indicator could also give accurate putting advice.  My favorite option is the language or accent choice to give you a feel for traveling while on the ever poplular staycation.  I would go with the Hirono broken english.  Put a chip in the ball and the CIYP can even comment, good or bad, on your shot.

Please note that each flag has a wind speed and direction device that transmits to the CIYP which helps in club selection.

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