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Shane Gurnett

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Which US Presidency produced the best US courses?
« on: August 01, 2008, 06:21:37 AM »
Which US President during their time in office can claim the best collection of courses built / opened at the time?

Is there any correlation between the quality of US President and the quality of the courses opened during their term in office?

 

Chris Kane

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Re: Which US Presidency produced the best US courses?
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2008, 07:38:35 AM »
If there is a correlation Shane, who should lovers of great golf architecture vote for in November?

Dan Herrmann

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Re: Which US Presidency produced the best US courses?
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2008, 08:31:33 AM »
Shane - I think the best correlation is how the economy was doing at the time.

Adam Clayman

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Re: Which US Presidency produced the best US courses?
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2008, 08:33:32 AM »
That would have to be Taft. Before the influences of those who thought they knew what made for good golf had time to infect the rest of the golfing world. Amazing today the fundamental mistakes are still made.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2008, 01:21:16 PM by Adam Clayman »
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Dan Herrmann

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Re: Which US Presidency produced the best US courses?
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2008, 08:38:58 AM »
Adam - I think you're right with Taft.

But, more recently, there was some awfully good neo-classical stuff built during the Clinton years.  Again, a function of the economy.

Jim Nugent

Re: Which US Presidency produced the best US courses?
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2008, 10:03:14 AM »
Adam - I think you're right with Taft.

But, more recently, there was some awfully good neo-classical stuff built during the Clinton years. 

A lot from the Bush years, too, all on Golf Magazine's 2007 World Top 100 list:

2001.....Pacific Dunes
2002.....Friar's Head
2004.....Cape Kidnapper's
2006.....Ballyneal
2004.....Barnbougle Dunes
2003.....Nanea
2004.....Old Sandwich

Additional Bush courses, from GM's top U.S. 100 list: 

2005.....Bandon Trails
2001.....Calusa Pines
2006.....Sebonack
2002.....Briar's Creek
2001.....Mayacama

Additional "Bush" courses on GW's 2008 100 Best Modern list:

2007.....Chambers Bay
2001.....Kingsley Club
2003.....Dallas National Golf Club
2006.....Bayonne
2001.....Briggs Ranch
2003.....Sutton's Bay
2006.....Pronghorn Fazio
2006.....Concession
2005.....Boston Golf Club
2003.....Club at Black Hole
2002.....Black Sheep Golf Club
2004.....Trump National Bedminster
2006.....We-Ko-Pa Saguaro
2005.....Whisper Rock
2002.....Black Mesa
2005.....Forest Creek
2003.....Forest Dunes
2002.....Hidden Creek
2003.....Seven Canyones
2001.....Rustic Canyon
2004.....Pronghorn Nicklaus

Now lets add a few more outstanding Doak courses, post 2000:

2008.....Rock Creek Cattle
2007.....Renaissance Club
2005.....St. Andrews Beach
2005.....Stone Eagle


Dan Herrmann

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Re: Which US Presidency produced the best US courses?
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2008, 10:06:34 AM »
Aye - but most of those courses were designed before 2000 - in the Clinton years :)

(I'm just bustin' you!)

TEPaul

Re: Which US Presidency produced the best US courses?
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2008, 10:15:18 AM »
Adam:

I don't know that there is much correlation between US Presidents and the quality of golf courses but I like your pick of Taft. Obviously Eisenhower was remarkably helpful to golf and its visibility but I believe Taft certainly was too. Taft may've been the only US President to publicly weigh-in on a international golf controversy when he got into the R&A/Travis Schenectedy Putter dispute.

Also, and ironically, I was just at the Myopia Club last week for a 3 day tournament and there is a bit of Taft history connected to that club. Taft apparently summered in nearby Prides Crossing, Mass. and he loved playing Myopia and did so perhaps daily while up there in the summer.

Herbert Leeds, the Myopia member famous for the creation of Myopia golf course, apparently delighted in torturing Taft with the course, particularly with a single bunker on the 10th hole that is still referred to as the "Taft" bunker. Apparently Taft got in it regularly and so Leeds had it dug deeper and deeper and deeper so Taft who was an incredibly heavy man would basically have to be lifted in and out of it.

David Stamm

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Re: Which US Presidency produced the best US courses?
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2008, 11:32:06 AM »
Wilson, Harding, Coolidge.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Anthony Fowler

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Re: Which US Presidency produced the best US courses?
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2008, 11:40:15 AM »
If there is a correlation Shane, who should lovers of great golf architecture vote for in November?

It appears to me that eras of great golf architecture have been marked by large increases in real disposable income.  Gains among high income individuals should lead to the creation of great private clubs, while gains among middle income individuals should lead to some great public courses. 

Popular opinion is that Republicans are stronger on the economy, particularly for high income individuals.  This notion is emperically  untrue.  Democrats and Republicans have comparable records in achieving RDI growth for the upper echelon, while Democrats are far better in achieving RDI growth for the average American.  With this in mind, I think Obama is the clear vote for golf course architecture, particularly for public access courses.

Which US President during their time in office can claim the best collection of courses built / opened at the time?

I'll go with Coolidge whose term in office saw the opening of Cypress, Winged Foot (West and East), Quaker Ridge, Seminole, Olympic, Oak Hill, Riviera, Chicago GC, Cherry Hills, Valley Club, . . .

Coolidge was a horrible president who slept 12 hours a day and did nothing to help the average American.  He happened to serve in a period of economic boom and his hands-off approach allowed the 99th percentile to thrive and build some great clubs.  My hunch is that the same courses would have been built during this time under a progressive president, and the progressive would have given  the middle class a better opportunity to play golf.  This is essentially what we see under Clinton, a boom of both private and public golf course architecture.

Jason McNamara

Re: Which US Presidency produced the best US courses? New
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2008, 10:20:47 PM »

Coolidge was a horrible president who ... did nothing to help the average American.

Leaving aside for a moment the idea that the role of the President is to "help the average American," could we have some "emperical" (sic) evidence for this assertion?

I am happy to provide some evidence refuting your assertion, but will do so off-line, since this does happen to be a golf forum.  IM me if you like.


Back to the original post, I think the President has as much to do with golf course quality as did Queen Victoria or George V.  And I am not sure that any early Australian PM was in office long enough!  :)  Continually perhaps, but not continuously...
« Last Edit: August 04, 2008, 10:29:29 PM by Jason McNamara »

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