The Ebb and Flow of GCA

[Thomas MacWood]

In the last week we enjoyed some of the best discusions this website has had in a long while....the last 24-hours have not been so good. Why is that and what can be done to get things back on track?

I've heard many suggestions over the years, but none of them have really helped. I think more drastic measures are in line. My suggestion is to kick me, Moriarty, TEP and Wayne off the site. Personally, I think a break would do us all good.

[Jim_Kennedy]

What might help is for all of you to zip up your respective pants and quit seeing who can p*ss the highest.

My friend Lou Z. has that record, he hit the ceiling in a Dunkin Donuts back in '71. 

 

[Jeff_Brauer]

Near as I can tell, we only need to write more civil posts, focusing on our opinions, and not telling others what they should do, how they should think, etc. One post at a time.....

[DMoriarty]

In the last week we enjoyed some of the best discusions this website has had in a long while....the last 24-hours have not been so good. Why is that and what can be done to get things back on track?

I've heard many suggestions over the years, but none of them have really helped. I think more drastic measures are in line. My suggestion is to kick me, Moriarty, TEP and Wayne off the site. Personally, I think a break would do us all good.

Interesting observation.   I was here in the last week . . . you were here as well, weren't you?    Let's see . . . who was missing from this picture?

Never mind.  I am fine with that option.  I'll gladly take a hit for the site.

[Jeff_Brauer]

My dear Mr. MacWood,

It escaped my attention until the esteemed Mr. Moriarity picked up on it, that this thread might possibly (and quite unintentionally, I am sure) cause some discomfort by one of our other esteemed members with whom you have had, from time to time, some, shall we say, "unpleasantness."

As such, I feel its my duty to point out, that under my proposal for more civil posts, this one may come dangerously close to breaching protocol that we all must voluntarily follow in polite society.

I trust you will take this missive under advisement whilst typing your next post or thread.

Sincerely yours,

Mr. Jeffrey D. Brauer

[Rick Shefchik]

What might help is for all of you to zip up your respective pants and quit seeing who can p*ss the highest.

My friend Lou Z. has that record, he hit the ceiling in a Dunkin Donuts back in '71. 

 

Jim,

I realize this is probably the very thing Tom was referring to, but I gotta know: Was Lou standing up or lying on one of the tables?

[DMoriarty]

Jeff,

I don't think that was Mr. MacWood's intention.   But I will flat out say it.   It was nice around here without those pompous blow-hards around. 

But MacWood's proposed solution requires no assignment of blame.   Throw us all out and enjoy the peace.   

I'll gladly take another break, and who here can say that they honestly don't think it would be good thing for TEPaul's well being if he were to walk away from his computer for an extended period of time?    He obviously cannot do it on his own, so do him a favor and yourselves one and throw us all off.


_____________________________

What might help is for all of you to zip up your respective pants and quit seeing who can p*ss the highest.

My friend Lou Z. has that record, he hit the ceiling in a Dunkin Donuts back in '71. 

 

Jim,

I realize this is probably the very thing Tom was referring to, but I gotta know: Was Lou standing up or lying on one of the tables?

My guess was that "Lou" is short for "Lou Anne" and that she was squatting and hit the ceiling on the ricochet.   

[Jeff_Brauer]

Gents,

I must really wonder about the cleanliness of the typical Dunkin Donuts establishment if that was allowed to happen!  How could it, with members of the police community frequenting such places on a regular basis (at least according to local legends, which of course, we are all obligated to protect.

It reminds me of a story from my youth, long, long ago.  A good friend attained employement at the local Dunkin Donuts.  Whilst at my house, my mater happened to ask what his duties at said establishment were.

When he replied that he washed the the restrooms and kneaded the dough for the donuts, my mother gasped, then screamed, "Well, I hope not in that order!"

Most present had a jolly good laugh, but I always suspected from the look on my friends face, that indeed, that was the order he attacked his daily tasks.

I understand that for the peasants among us, that Dunkin Donuts has decent coffee at prices much less than we are used to paying at Starbucks and similar establishments.  I have not yet found the need to visit Dunkin Donuts to find out if the cost savings are worth the possible health risks, and I believe I shant in the foreseeable future.

[DMoriarty]

Jeff, My guess is that Lou Anne Z. was a cop.

[Jim_Kennedy]

His nickname was 'the neck', and he was standing.

Back then the typical DD was huge, three times the size of present day establishments.

The police chief in our town resigned one morning. Later that afternoon he was indicted for running a bookmaking operation. His pension is still being paid to him.


p.s. this happened in a DD bathroom.

[Kalen Braley]

Tom,

We can put it to a vote.  I vote no, but thats just me!!

http://kbjames.freepolls.com/cgi-bin/polls/006/poll_center.htm


But just remember:

"I figure its time for me to start playing ball again, but under one condition.  Coach goes, I go...coach stays, I stay" 

[Marty Bonnar]

Tom,
many thanks for posting your thoughts. They mirror mine quite disturbingly.

I check in every day, but feel less and less inclined to post as it seems interesting threads (to me at least) slide down the board with ever more alarming levels of lubrication.

Pontification, whether by pontiffs or by lesser mortals, is seldom interesting, engaging or endearing and I, for one, switch off from those long, incredibly dull 'mine is bigger than yours' contests we are increasingly made to endure.

EVERYONE here should remember that this is a place for discussion, NOT a soapbox for architectural bigotry nor a gallows for execution of the heretic.

People, FFS lighten up.

best regards,
Martin.

[Jeff_Brauer]

My esteemed Mr. Moriarity,

Whilst I agree with your conclusions regarding Mr. MacWoods intentions, my comments were directed at the possibility of a morbid offense - insulting ones acquaintenances in polite society - not the intention of doing so.  In such circles, the act, or the apparent act, is all that counts, while motivation is secondary.  Doest thou agree?

Whilst on the subject, I trust you use the phrase "pompous blow hard" in its best possible meaning, whatever that might be.  I fear your missive might also cause some unpleasantness but I shall wait to observe.

I have too suggested to Mr. Paul that time away from frivolous activities is adviseable in his case, but not so in any negative sense.  I understand he is working on some very important projects, including a national arhive for history of the upper classes who happen to "bat it around" the links, and also a tome of epic proportions concerning some fellow named Flynn, who reportedly displayed a certain flare for a craft curiously called "golf course architecture" whatever that might prove to be.

As I understand it, he has been asked to undertake these tasks by some very important people.  How thrilling for him it must be!  I want ever so much for him to be successful, just as I wish success for us all.

Add in time every afternoon for society activities like tea and crumpets, and I am dreadfully sure that Mr. Paul (and I dare say, many of the rest of us) would be ill advised to while away his hours here.  Discussions here have been know to "angry up the blood" as that great African American pitcher, Satchel Paige once put it.  In this hectic day and age, I am sure we would all benefit by avoiding, wherever possible, "angry blood" and quite possibly, any other parts of our "innards."

Hope this missive finds you well.  Please advise if you follow through with your plans to take leave of this place for a while.  And, if you know the intentions of others for certain, updates on their plans would also be greatly appreciated.  Without such statements, some here who are fond of you might just presume that you have been bashed in the skull with a mashie.  I'm sorry if I sound too direct, but we wouldn't want to be so impolite as to make them worry so, would we?

Most sincerely,

Jeffrey D Brauer

[Kalen Braley]

I agree in basic concept with Martin:

Reminds me a bit from recently watching "The Dark Night", which was very good by the way.  The quote was "Some men just want to watch the world burn"

I'd hope that is not the case for anyone in here.

[PThomas]

how about this:  at a mimimum, you guys keep your fights to ONE AND ONLY ONE thread, instead of carrying on in several of them as you have done so far

i can't believe how you guys carry on and on and on .......there's a LOT more important stuff in the world

[Thomas MacWood]

Jeff
I thought my post was quite civil, and generous, afterall I'm suggesting I need to go and Moriarity needs to go, along with our adversaries TEP and Wayne. We are all to blame to some degree. TE needs a break, Wayne needs a break, Moriarty needs a break, I need a break, and above all this site needs a break. Six months seems fair.

I will be filing a petition on a separate thread. There are about 200 (give or take a few) active participants on GCA. If we get 101 signatures...the site will have spoken, and the four of us are off the site.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Mr. MacWood and Mr. Morrisett,

I hope this missive finds you both well, and absent of angry blood that others seem to have experienced.  I also sense many are getting the dreaded "vapors" so there is a lot of illness going around our tight knit little community.

In answer to the esteemed Mr. MacWood's original question, I have a proposal for Mr. Morrisett, proprietor of golfclubatlas.com.

Whilst it seems most of us play well with others, there are a few topics that cause concern.  It occurs to me the solution might be a simple matter of setting up a new section on this website, similar to the "in my opinion" section, but reserved for potentially, shall we say, "charged" subjects.

At the risk of sounding indelicate, only one name for the section occurs to me at this moment.  For some reason, and throwing all customs of polite society out the window, I think any club history essays ought to have their own section entitled (I am shamed to say this) "Turd in the Punch Bowl."

I trust others with less addled brains whilst reflect on this proposed title, and develop something far better and in prose that does not offend, and yet clearly conveys the same basic idea. 

I'm dreadfully sorry and mortified that no matter how hard I try, I shant be able to come up with another phrase that conveys my feelings about the various Merion threads as well as "Turd in the Punch Bowl."  I also fear that, since "punch bowl" is a commonly used architectural phrase around here, that this new phrase might encourage an activity not unlike the prevously discussed (and equally shameful) "Pee on the Dunkin Donuts Ceiling".

If that came to pass, I trust I would be the one asked to resign, for my role in bringing the civility level around here (and on greens set low in natural or man made hollows) to new lows.

With deepest apologies for possible offense,


Jeffrey D. Brauer

[Bill Gayne]

I finally am at the conclusion that bifurcation in this website is necessary.

A group for those who want to discuss GCA besides Merion unless it was really about architecture,
an OT Group,
and some sort of section called "Beyond Belief, Fact or Fiction?" Where all Merion, Barker, and whoever whatever similar threads would go.

At any point the threads could be moved between sections.

[JWinick]

Controversy sells!  I think spirited debates are exciting and invigorating, providing that we don't degenerate into ad hominem attacks.   I would not want to ban people who have strong opinions like the few you mentioned.  But, we should encourage new voices to speak up.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Mr. MacWood,

Our missives seem to have crossed in what they tell me is called "cyberspace."  How dreadful that we missed connections in our last attempts at communications!

I agree your post appeared most civil, and simply suggested that, for any communications, we could all be better at reading them from the perspective of others.  Whilst I am not quick enough of mind to have picked up on a possible slight to others, Mr. Moriarity noticed that quite quickly.  I am sure you were taken aback at the slimmest possibility of causing offense.

I do concur that your offer to resign is quite generous and courageous.  If I may be so bold, some however, could also consider it impolite, since it would force them to publicly take sides, or reprimand a friend.  Surely, you don't want to put innocent people into that akward situation, doest though?  I fear some would rather take sword to belly before they cast out a friend from this place.

I find myself wondering is such drastic measures are truly required.  In polite society there is a thing called "sweeping it under the rug."  For those familiar with the saying and practice, its a well known tactic that has kept families and businesses together (and apparently happy from all outside appearences) for generations.  And, as we all know, in polite society, its outside appearances that truly count!

Another long practiced tactic you may be famililar with is the "sincere apology."  (wink) These work best when all sides of the unpleasantness craft an apology that seems sincere on the surface, but is carefully worded as to not actually admit the party did anything wrong.  Rather, it focuses on how sorry we are to have caused anyone any kind of unpleasantness.

How delightful it is when formerly warring parties hug and appear to make up!  As before, its outside appearances that really count!

Truly, I hope you take no offense at my observations.  Far be it from me to put words in anyone's mouth!  I trust this advice is accepted in the same spirit as it is given.  Thats all for now.  Take care.

Yours so ever truly,


Jeffrey D. Brauer

(PS - While it seems impolite, I do hope this thread ends soon.  It is ever so difficult to keep up writing in this stilted style!)

[Thomas MacWood]

Jeff
I'm not here to point a finger at anyone in particular. Who is to say that the site would not have flourished had I been the one who went Boston for a week. There are some chemicals that are absolutely harmless on their own, its only when they are brought in contact to some other chemical that become complete assholes, I beg your pardon, volitile and explosive.

We've got some old unstable chemicals sitting around GCA that need to be removed and buried out back.

[TEPaul]

"In the last week we enjoyed some of the best discusions this website has had in a long while....the last 24-hours have not been so good. Why is that and what can be done to get things back on track?

I've heard many suggestions over the years, but none of them have really helped. I think more drastic measures are in line. My suggestion is to kick me, Moriarty, TEP and Wayne off the site. Personally, I think a break would do us all good."


Tom MacWood:

I've never agreed with you on much on this website but that's a suggestion I would definitely get with you on and agree with you on. It seems like the two pair of us have some truly entrenched philosophical differences on a lot of things and not just things to do with architecture. It's more like things to do with golf clubs and other things out there interested in this subject.

It's really gotten tiring with you two for Wayne and I on here and I'm pretty certain you two feel the same about Wayne and me.

I actually have some respect for you in at least one area but with Moriarty it's less than zero. If he asked for this I wouldn't even consider it but if you want to seriously consider asking Ran to take us four off of here, I'm in. 
 
 
 

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom MacWood,

Can we just vote select members off, or do we have to vote on the whole kit and kaboodle?   

I've thought seriously about quitting in the past.   

Now, when I consider the joy that would bring to some folks here, wild horses couldn't drag me away!   

btw, I think you know I'd vote to keep all four of you here. 

[TEPaul]

Jeffrey D. Brauer, you old double dog in the noonday sun, you've buffaloed me for how many years now? I never realized you were some damn English aristocrat hiding somewhere in the American desert (or is it dessert?).

What the hell did you do over there to have to escape to the colonies? Did you nail your best friend's wife by a mistake and get caught at it like some red-assed rabbit with a gimpy leg?

Now I fear I might wake up in the middle of the night and start laughing again. My wife will just slug me mercilessly as she usually does when the dog has too much wine and snores loudly and I won't get no rest. I need it, you know, to post on here as much as I do to defend these fine clubs and their reputations and their legends from the constant assaults of these despicatual interlopers with no fucking manners.

Hey, look, how would you like to go with me back to England in about a month and a half? We can check out some architecture in the heathlands. I'm having brunch with the Queen and I'll consider buying you a really serious indulgence to atone for whatever you did over there and you can consider going home again.

[Phil_the_Author]

How about the four of you simply being NICE to one another for a change?

The idea behind this thread is as immature as all of the arguing that has taken place and you all should be embarrassed by it yet your comments on this thread show none.

When my two sons were young my wife discovered the perfect discipline for them that maybe the four of you ought to try. She would make them sit on stools facing each other. They would have to hold hands and keep saying over and over, "I love my brother... I love my brother..." It was wonderful torture and today they are best of friends.

Humility... it's a great word and even a better attribute when practiced. It's time to start.