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Philippe Binette

  • Karma: +0/-0
Routing is only as important as...
« on: July 30, 2008, 10:43:32 PM »
what you do with it...

Agree / disagree...

Just thinking that a bunch of great hole are some that don't make any sense on a routing scheme.

Routing being subjective...
if you turn a weirdly routed hole into something that work... it end up being a unique hole than people say the architect was great at using a feature... and that he did a good routing

ironic

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Routing is only as important as...
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2008, 11:12:06 PM »
Philippe, this doesn't really answer your question, but I'm reminded of a statement by Doak about routing.


The most basic element of good routing: that the holes follow the same path a person would take if he were to walk the property before the course was built.


Not sure what this has to do with your thread, but for some reason it reminded me of the above statement.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Routing is only as important as...
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2008, 11:14:47 AM »
Extrapolating on what David wrote.........Tom has also mentioned before that sometimes you relish a hole so much you make compromises in the rest of the routing to make sure and fit it in.

What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Philippe Binette

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Routing is only as important as...
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2008, 11:20:40 AM »
What I'm saying is that getting away from traditional routing principles can create unique holes.... being too perfect with a routing might produce standard courses

Greg Murphy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Routing is only as important as...
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2008, 04:19:26 PM »
Philippe,

If a bit of awkwardness is the only price to pay to access features that make a great hole or two, it's a price I'm glad to pay. To a point, of course. And I think sometimes the designer may be able to make the awkwardness itself work to add uniqueness to the overall experience presented by the course. Again, to a point.

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Routing is only as important as...
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2008, 01:04:32 PM »
I did not recall that Tom D. said, "The most basic element of good routing: that the holes follow the same path a person would take if he were to walk the property before the course was built," but it is a good thought.

However...routing is also about the obstacle course, and that very often will go against the "most natural path" a person might take. Certainly at Cypress Point the casual hiker would never venture to the woods and then back. I think the routing might be different if Cypress were a casual hike.

The route from A to B is both actual and perceived. An actual route, when in a zig-zagged line, is perceived as longer, even when a comparable line of the exact length is absolutely straight. A person walking might attempt the more straight line, even it is means a slightly more difficult walk. A to B is often attempted as straight as possible. Just look at how people cut corners on sidewalks at intersections and in parks.

In my view the essence is whether the routing is balanced without being predictable. For example, a course can be guilty of taking too much advantage of certain views and features, but this is no reason to abandoned those attributes. And, with regard to park and length, a course can be overly "even," yet this is no reason to be quirky just for the sake of quirkiness.

The importance of routing is rising to the surface in our current time, for we are now uncovering courses where nearly everything might be changed and remodeled — except the routing. The bright and brilliant transformations of 1960s—1980s courses are often those which were routed well and had "good bones" as Desmond Muirhead often called decent routings. Indeed, Muirhead struck a honest note when he said that much of a golf course is the flesh and clothes—that, like a beautiful woman, it is the anatomy and structure which makes her so attractive at the core. Courses are no different—it is the "big picture" elements of site selection and routing that establish their greatness in nearly all instances.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2008, 01:07:53 PM by Forrest Richardson »
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Routing is only as important as...
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2008, 08:15:26 PM »
The first time I saw that quote about great routing as the natural/logical way a person would walk the undeveloped land, was several years ago, said by Jeremey Glenn. 

To me, routing is like comparative painting styles.  The paintings and GC routing can be in different styles of use across or over the top of land as paint is applied in various techniques upon canvas.  Yet, the various techniques can be beautiful of annoying depending on who is applying the technique. 
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Routing is only as important as...
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2008, 10:06:22 AM »
What I'm saying is that getting away from traditional routing principles can create unique holes.... being too perfect with a routing might produce standard courses


I love this comment. I think it's why a lot of modern (read: cartball) courses with 18 signature holes feel cold to me.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Routing is only as important as... New
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2008, 10:22:48 PM »
Then again, George, there is nothing better in the Arizona heat than to feel "cold"....   :o
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 10:27:05 AM by Forrest Richardson »
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Routing is only as important as... New
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2008, 12:42:26 AM »
The older I get, the more I feel that the best routing's are a feel thing....and something that only a small percentage of GCA's have a true talent for.

Its similar to good land planning, making love etc.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2008, 05:56:12 AM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

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