No Longer a Ten?

[Tom_Doak]

I'm in Pinehurst this weekend, and walked the No. 2 course last night with one of my interns.  It has always been one of my favorite courses for its unique greens and for its general understatedness.

It was sad to see it.  Of course, in summer months, everything is the same pale green and the course has never looked at its best, but in the 8-10 years since I was last here, it appears they've lost their feel for what made the course special.  The mowing lines suck, the bermuda roughs have been drastically expanded, and all of the cool little touches around the course have been essentially paved over with bermuda.  It feels as bad as visiting an old favorite uncle who is now suffering from dementia.

They have lost it before, in the 1970's, and got it back.  I hope they can do it again.  Right now it is difficult to believe people are paying through the nose to play it.

[Sean Leary]

Are the new rough lines due to the US Amateur?

[Tom_Doak]

Sean:

I suspect the mowing lines were changed before the U.S. Opens and they have never gotten back to where they should be.  Half the strategy of the course seems to be gone now ... you used to play into a corner of fairway past a bunker to get an angle to the green, and now the corner is rough.

[John Moore II]

Would mowing really detract that much from the architecture?

[cary lichtenstein]

Tom:

Yep, that's how I see it too

Cary

[Ari Techner]

Very sad to hear that.  Its been about 8 years since I have been there and played (got snowed out the last time believe it or not) and I was in the process of trying to get back there soon.  Maybe I will rethink the destination and go somewhere new. 

[Steve Kline]

Would mowing really detract that much from the architecture?

The way they changed the mowing at #2 yes. For example, the first hole has a fairway bunker on the left that you can drive it into - or should I say use to be able to drive it into. The bunker used to sit right on the edge of the fairway. I found that right next to the bunker was the ideal place to hit your second shot from because the green subtly tilts from right to left. Now that bunker probably sits 10 yards outside of the fairway. Drives really won't go into it anymore and you've lost the angle of attack. Another example is on 16. There used to be lots of fairway over the left bunker just over the water. If you could carry it far enough you could take it down the left and easily reach the green in two. Now all that fairway has been lost and you must play toward the two fairway bunkers on the reach, making the hole much more difficult to reach in two. This kind of thing has happened on hole after hole.

And, I have to agree with Tom. I've played the course well over 200 times in over the last 18 years. The mowing patterns definitely changed prior to the first Open and they have never gone back. Although the Open did bring about removing some trees behind the 3rd green - I think more for spectator viewing - but it did make it an awesome skyline green. All they need to do is get the mowing and maintenance right and it is a terrific course.

#2 also has the unideal maintenance meld going. For the last several years the fairways are always soft - even during a drought. Usually the greens are too soft as well. It's not right when my three irons are stopping right by their pitch marks on those greens.

The family that owned the corporation that owned Pinehurst recently sold everything but Pinehurst. So the family is focusing all of their attention on Pinehurst. Perhaps Tom could right them a very polite letter about what needs to be done. Of course with another Open in 2014 I doubt anything that anyone says - unless it is Mike Davis - will make any difference.

[Craig Disher]

Since #2 is walking-only, I don't see any reason to keep the fairways as soft as they've been the past few years. I'll accept that the greens might need a bit more water due to the heavy play and expectations of resort guests, but having a ball pick up mud in the middle of a drought ought to be unacceptable.

Steve - a similar approach to #16 was taken at #4 where the fairway edge behind the left fairway bunker has been moved several yards to the right.  Now the bunker is just another penal hazard with rough surrounding it. I don't know how the resort benefits from narrowing the fairways and planting wall-to-wall bermuda. It slows play - a real problem - and takes away some of the playing characteristics that made ithe course unique.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Steve Kline,

Changing the mowing patterns/narrowing the fairways and not restoring them seems to be a "universal" for preparing for one of the "big shows".

Wonderful courses such as Newport, Merion, Shinnecock, Pinehurst, Bethpage and others have lost much of their original fairway widths.

And for what, four days out of every ten years ?

The concept of horizontal elasticity seems to be undiscovered by the wonderful clubs that let the camel into the tent.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Interesting about the wall to wall Bermuda; Tom and Craig can you provide specifics? Every time I go down there I get to hear how they are reclaiming sandy waste areas, for example on 11 and 12.

Tom, did you get a chance to talk to the super? Could green softness have something to do with the Am, or the conversion some years back to bent?

IMHO when the powers that be decide a golf course cannot be maintained as it was designed, then something isn't wrong with the golf course, something is wrong with the game of golf.

Mark

[hhuffines]

Tom:

I was really saddened when reading your post - mostly because I just got home from doing battle with Pacific Dunes for 36 holes in a 30 mph wind and hated having to leave.  While playing through some absolute fear (the
same fear Pinehurst used to generate) when hitting approach shots to the PD greens, I had hoped that #2 was part of your mindset when designing Pacific Dunes.

Whether #2 influenced you or not, thank you for a wonderful gift to all of us who relish a stern, frightening and fun test of seaside golf!

I will watch carefully on the US Am tv coverage to see if they make any mowing changes. 

[Adam Clayman]

How can some of these venerable old clubs not know something so fundamental? #2 is not the only one.

Tom's criticisms seem objective enough. Or, Are they subjective falling under some Big World umbrella?
 
When they get to be a top 10 course, do they freak out and figure change is warranted?
 

[Matt_Cohn]

Sweet. Now I'll feel better if I have to withdraw from my qualifier on Monday.

[Ron Farris]

Tom D.
Sad to hear this about #2.
Is tournament golf ruining some to the old great golf courses with increased rough.  Too challenge the professionals it seems the fairways are reduced in width.  Are you lobbying to change the place back to its original intent, including the green contours that Pete Dye has talked about?

[Scott_Burroughs]

Since #2 is walking-only....

Since when?  If this is true, they must have changed it in the last 5 years.  Bravo, if so.



As far as the narrowing of playing corridors, that isn't new, either.  Bethpage narrowed the Black for the '02 US Open, and from what I hear (here), they haven't been back.

[Tom_Doak]

Mark B.:  Okay, on 11 and 12 there is 90 feet of fairway, 60-70 feet of rough to either side, and then about 25 feet of "restored" sandy waste.

The director of maintenance here, Brad Kocher, is a longtime friend and he is not in town this week.  I hesitated about making my post for that reason, but then I figured I have had the course rated as a ten for about 15 years and I should change it if it was warranted.

Scott B:  Yes, lots of courses have narrowed the fairways for Opens, with mixed results.  Shinnecock didn't mow theirs back out between 1995 and 2004, but now they have gone back to the original widths and it is great to see it again -- I was there earlier this week.  Other courses have stayed on the straight and narrow, but courses like Torrey and the Black (sorry Philip) were not as strategic regarding fairway placement as Pinehurst No. 2, which lives and dies on subtle stuff like that.  Ben Crenshaw says that there are three holes at Augusta where his ideal landing area is now in the rough ... I bet there are six holes at Pinehurst where that's true.

[Tim Bert]

I played there in 2004, so I can provide a reference point in the interim period since Tom saw it last.  The only problem is I've only seen it once, so I don't know how much of the fairway was rough at that point.  I do know that most of the rough was fairly short and playable (the first hole probably hd the worst rough that I remember) and the fairways seemed somewhat generous.  Our caddie did tell us that they had begun narrowing the fairways for the Open's return, but that there was more to come.

Tom, take a look at these pictures of #11 and #12 from four years ago.  Has the course returned to these widths, or is it even narrower than this?

[Mark Bourgeois]

The 1974 master plan specified the removal of love grass on pretty much every hole -- so much for the restoration!

[Craig Disher]

Since #2 is walking-only....

Since when?  If this is true, they must have changed it in the last 5 years.  Bravo, if so.

Scott- I meant that the course is walking-only wrt to the restriction of carts to the outer limits of each hole. Carts are not permitted on the fairways or rough - no change in that regard - and therefore the wear on fairway grass is minimal. However, since last March carrying your bag is permitted.

[Jim Nugent]

They have lost it before, in the 1970's, and got it back.  I hope they can do it again.  Right now it is difficult to believe people are paying through the nose to play it.

Tom, suppose they don't get it back.  What score would you give Pinehurst?  9?  8?  Something else? 

[Tom_Doak]

Jim:

If I answer that question, I will have to re-rate 1,000 other courses, so I'll pass.  Really, I just hope they get it back to where it should be.  I'm not campaigning for the job in any sense ... Bill Coore is working down here right now and I'm sure he could help them, as he's much more familiar with the course than I am.  Unfortunately, though, they don't seem to want any help, so it may take some bad reviews to get them to listen.

[Steve Kline]

Mr. Mucci - you are correct. But with wall to wall bermuda wouldn't it be easy to narrow and expand the fairways at will? It's all the same grass, right?

Craig - I only mentioned two holes to give examples, but you are right about #4. There used to be fairway behind that fairway bunker. You could take your tee shot over that bunker and get a little turbo boost enhancing the opportunity to reach the green for really long hitters. Another example is #3. The fairway use to go almost all the way to the sandy waste area on the right - within a couple of yards any way. This helped to open up left hand hole locations. Now the fairway is so narrow you pretty much just end up in the same spot no matter what and can't play strategically for the left hand hole locations anymore. As far as the greens, when the first Open came they regrassed the greens with a more heat tolerant bent grass that would allow them to keep them firm and fast for the Open - since it is usually brutally hot in June. It's worked for the Open but they still keep them soft and flow the rest of the year. Frankly, over the last 5 years or so I've felt that every other course at the resort has better playing conditions than #2 - which is pretty sad given the cost to play it.

Tom D. - Ideal landing areas (if being really picky) given the new mowing patterns:

1. left rough for me (but I can see how it would be left rough for some)
2. Right now I can't recall how close the fairway is to the left hand bunkers but the ideal landing area is as close to those bunkers as you can get
3. right rough
4. left rough
5. left rough
6. par 3
7. no problem
8. no problem
9. par 3
10. no problem
11. left rough for right hand pins
12. no problem
13. left rough for right hand pins
14. no problem
15. par 3
16. left rough
17. par 3
18. right rough if wanting to shorten hole

I would be interested how you see this Tom. Also, they narrowed the fairways in the worst way - they simply lopped about 10 yards off either side of the fairways on every hole. They could have been more thoughtful and preserved some of the angles bringing them in more on one side than the other. Of course then some of the rough bunkers would have really been in the rough.

The sandy waste areas on 11 and 12 have been since I started going 18 years ago as far as I can remember.

As for walking it's always been carts on paths at all times. Years and years ago, if you wanted to walk you had to take caddies but members that were part of the walking club could walk and carry after 3:45 any day of the week on a first come, first serve basis - an absolutely awesome treat. Now, it is still carts on path only. The only way resort guests can walk is with caddies. And, members can walk and carry at any time. At least, so my dad tells me who is a member.

[Mike Sweeney]

I have never played Pinehurst #2. Just curious if everyone agrees with Tom Doak that it was ever a 10 on the Doak Scale?

[David_Madison]

The second hole left hand bunkers used to be on the edge of the fairway, maybe even part-way into the fairway. Now they are ten-plus yeards into the rough. That corner was always the best angle to get to certain cups.

I've always thought that the best set-up there was wide fairways with deep rough and penal waste areas in play versus narrow fairways with moderate rough that still allowed you to advance the ball pretty well. Now it's all become kinda' a mush.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Tom D.,

Hasn't Rees Jones been consulting with Pinehurst for a number of years, leading up to the past couple US Opens?