Fairway versus greenside bunkers on inland courses.

[mike_malone]

As I stand on the 12th tee at Rolling Green and look at the green surrounded by bunkers with the bright green of the putting surface and the still brown surrounds I think I see the need for greenside bunkers but still wonder about fairway bunkers.


I can see the beauty of fairway bunkers and believe Flynn saw that attribute as pleasing. So a few are ok.


It still comes down to features that affect everyone versus some. Everyone approaches the green so the visual and play aspects of bunkers make sense to me.


In the fairway they seem to be a waste of money except for an occasional accent.

[Mark_Fine]

Mike,
Obviously sand features look much more natural and in place on a links course.  That is why I don't care for bright white sand in bunkers on parkland courses or most any courses for that matter.  If you are going to have bunkers there (trying to emulate golf on the links) at least tone them down.  Bright white sand makes them look even more artificial.  But as far as fairway bunkers go, everything in moderation.  There should be some challenges/obstacles/hazards to confront tee shots and not just approach shots.  Sometimes the toughest shot on a links course is the tee shot.  Sometimes not 

[Jeff_Brauer]

Mark,


Conceptually, you are probably right that fw bunkers are probably past their prime.  Golfers aim at 2 acres of fw, and you put a 2000 SF bunker somewhere near it, its a low percentage of balls going in.  Greenside bunkers don't have that problem.


FW bunkers are probably used more for framing and turning than real hazard, or at least that's how they turn out to be used.  I find I use them when they serve more than one useful purpose, as in hazard plus, aesthetics, dividing, saving, turning and framing, etc.  Not as worthwhile when they only do one thing for the design. 


I'm just not sure everyone will accept no fw bunkers, just for visual reasons.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Hey Mike.
You could come visit Memorial to test out your theory.
of the 17 bunkers only 4 are in the fairway.
I generally prefer the opposite though, more fairway bunkers than greenside bunkers.
Nine Grand has only 6 bunkers, 2 are greenside.
Wolf Point has about 60, about 10 are greenside.
I prefer to defend hole locations locally with landforms and contour and to protect/defend the ideal landing area with a bunker if there is no immediate feature. This helps illustrate how routing is so important to the design of individual holes. And I think bunkers are a bit more of a crutch around the green.
Peace

[Thomas Dai]

On reading the OP my thoughts turned to the comments reported by Tom D and Mike N from Brooks Koepka about the bunkering at Memorial Park. And then I read Mike N’s response.
Atn

[Tom_Doak]

Did anyone see the piece on Golf.com yesterday where they quoted Ben Crenshaw as saying bunkers were the key to a great course?


I don't think it was actually a fresh interview, I think it was taken out of context from something else I've seen before.  I couldn't imagine that was the first thing Ben would say.

[Mark_Fine]

Just these few comments show why golf is so special.  So much variety in design.  There is no right formula.  Some of the greatest golf courses in the world have lots of fairway bunkers,... and some don't 

[mike_malone]

Another feature of greenside bunkers is the variety of shapes and sizes which affect play and visual intimidation.


 Various shots are needed in these bunkers versus the limited choices in fairway bunkers. Either go for the green or just get out.


 I also like the greenside bunker that is extended away from the green creating another interesting shot.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Mayday
That's the 5th bunker at Memorial

http://www.mnuzzo.com/img/mp/5gr.jpg

*I don't know why I can't get the insert image to work anymore - I forgot the code details also - help.

[mike_malone]

Mike,


 Yes that’s a good example. A bunker like that in the fairway is much less interesting.

[Sean_A]

Mike,


 Yes that’s a good example. A bunker like that in the fairway is much less interesting.

  Isn't Mike's example a fairway bunker?

In any case, the use of bunkers is site dependent. On an ideal site where there are great green sites, the need for greenside bunkers is reduced. Conversely, the same site could have many similar tee shots that are improved and differentiated by some bunkers.

Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

More fairway humps and bumps would be nice. Subtle ones, washboards rather than Dolly Parton’s or Don Kings. Irregular fairway lies and stances can be cool. Diagonal berms (and ditches) are good too.
Atb