Donald Ross and Neil Young

[Gary Daughters]

Was it Donald Ross who said the first hole of a golf course should be a "friendly handshake?"

"Down by the River" commences likewise, if with a hint of paranoia:

"Be on my side, I'll be on your side"

Are they onto the same thing?

[Greg Murphy]

Gary,

Great analogy. Courses can to take us on a journey, like a good song. They don't have to. A course might slap us up the side of the head, from start to finish, like some good hard driving songs do, but I think I prefer something with some ebb and flow, a bit of build up, some transitions and change of pace here and there. While I am a huge fan of semi-blindness, or "compression and release" as Ian Andrew coined it on his blog, one place I prefer to see it all laid out in front of me is on the first hole. It's also nice if that first hole is on the forgiving side. I've heard Keiser is a big believer in having the opening hole be a par 5, as it gives the "retail golfer" a chance to hit a less than pure or straight shot on the first couple of swings, while still allowing an opportunity to get on the green and make a two putt par or save par with a chip and putt. Call me a retail golfer. I'll buy that.

[Randy Thompson]

There is no cook book formula to golf course architecture. The best opening hole depends on the lay of the land, one should avoid par threes for slowing down play at the gate, other then that...whatever!!

[Kirk Gill]

I don't know that Donald and Neil would have seen eye to eye, so I don't know which way to go with that first line.

However, the song expresses a decidedly different opinion on "shot values" then Mr. Ross may have believed in.........

[JMEvensky]

However, the song expresses a decidedly different opinion on "shot values" then Mr. Ross may have believed in.........

That's really good.

[Will MacEwen]

I don't know that Donald and Neil would have seen eye to eye, so I don't know which way to go with that first line.

However, the song expresses a decidedly different opinion on "shot values" then Mr. Ross may have believed in.........

Solid.

[Bill_McBride]

There is no cook book formula to golf course architecture. The best opening hole depends on the lay of the land, one should avoid par threes for slowing down play at the gate, other then that...whatever!!

Routing is really an interesting subject.

One of my favorite all time courses, Sonoma Golf Club in the Northern California wine country, designed by Sam Whiting, starts with a short par 4 followed by a 3 shot par 5 (uphill 2nd makes it very difficult to get home in 2) followed by a stout par 4.

For years, you would walk off the first green and walk the 30 yards to the 2nd tee where you would find 3 groups on the tee while 2 more played the hole ahead.

There's probably a reason for this but I have no idea.  Anybody?

It's possible the first hole played so quickly there was nowhere to go, but 3 groups on the tee?  The first par 3 was #4.

[Brian_Sleeman]

Kudos also to Mr. Daughters for the Drive-By Truckers reference in his profile...

To take the analogy further, it might make more sense to compare the flow of a golf course to that of an album of songs, rather than one song on its own.  The opening tune should grab your attention and give you an idea for the theme of what's to come without giving too much away, and then take you in all kinds of side directions with variations in rhythm, melody, and length.

I'd hate to get away from Neil Young, but if you want to get into true geekhood about it, consider the flow of "Abbey Road."  "Come Together" prepares you for something completely different, then it opens up with "Something," alternates between cutesiness and rock for awhile, shows some true beauty around the middle, and then culminates in a brilliant medley that reaches a dramatic and reflective conclusion in "The End."  There are certainly courses that flow in a similar fashion, and I wonder if guys like Jim Engh who like to work while listening to certain music are ever influenced by that side of it.

If he's got an "Astral Weeks" out there, I'm all over it.

[Gary Daughters]

Brian,

I don't talk to that many GCA's, but I do know one who acknowledges ebb and flow as an important part of what he does.   Next time I see him I'll suggest "Abbey Road."  That should go over big!  Maybe Dark Side of the Moon GC.

I'm probably predisposed toward this, but I can't get beyond believing that the allure of this art form is more than simply designing "the best 18 holes."

Whatever, it's fun and I think relevant to compare GCA to other art forms.  This would be another thread entirely, but art theory, eye tracking, etc.  Someone said Engh is attuned to that stuff, but I'll leave that to him.

PS What the heck is a "slipstream?"

[Dan Kelly]

There is no cook book formula to golf course architecture. The best opening hole depends on the lay of the land, one should avoid par threes for slowing down play at the gate, other then that...whatever!!

How long does it take an average foursome to play an average par-3?

If a par-3 tends to be a bottleneck, why not get it out of the way right out of the gate?

Questions, questions.

[Rick Shefchik]

Maybe the ideal would be to open and close each nine with a par 3 -- at least on public courses.

The first hole of each nine would give the preceding group at least a ten-minute head start. The final hole on the front nine would give the group ahead of you enough time to grab a hot dog and a Gatorade at the turn without unduly slowing play.

It might take away from the dramatic potential of a course to route it that way, but on a public course, pace of play is a bigger concern.

[Mark Manuel]

I don't think it matters whether the second hole is a par 3, 4 or 5.  If the second hole is a lot harder than the first there always seems to be a log jam on that second tee.  It seems to happen more frequently when the holes are #1 and #2, but also seems to happen throughout the 18 if the degree of difficulty is extreme.

[Greg Murphy]

Gary,

Back to Neil. Any golf equivalent to "Cowgirl in the Sand"? Half a minute of light doodling, a silent pause, then an enormous blunt guitar slam, furious guitar for a minute or so, then a quiet, almost bubblegum vocal backed section, followed by more guitar . . . What an adventure. As golf should be.

[Gary Daughters]

Greg,

There you go. 

Anyone in for "Eyes of the World?"

dada daDAH
dada DADAH

That's how it feels to me.

[John_Cullum]

Neil Young, Mike Young, Don Ross, whatever

[Gary Daughters]

Ross Perot, Mackenzie Phillips, Maxwell Smart, Jerry Garcia

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