"They are not developing golf courses for people", love Lee Trevino

[William_G]

http://www.pga.com/pgachampionship/interviews/2013-pga-championship-interview-transcript-lee-trevino

always a great quote or three!

[Don Hyslop]

What a great interview this is, thanks for sharing. Lee Trevino, in my opinion, is so right when it comes to the reasons why golf's popularity is hurting at the moment.

[Brent Hutto]

In my opinion, I don't think a golf course should be over 7,000 yards long. That should be max. That should be max. If the pros shoot 30 under, let them shoot 30 under, because they are not paying anything. You don't see them paying a green fee. You think the guys at Firestone this week are going in and paying a green fee? They are not going to go in there and say: What's the green fee, 260? I'll take a cart, too. No, they are going in there, getting free food, free range balls and $7 million to play Firestone.

But now, how about the next 51 weeks, now who has it? The members. Come on. You guys have gone crazy. You're going backwards. You're going backwards.

Give 'em hell Lee.

[SL_Solow]

Shooting fish in a barrel for the likes of us.  Has anyone played courses with his name on them?  My one experience would not give me any confidence that if he were the architecture czar, there would be much created that would be of significant interest.

[JLahrman]

Shooting fish in a barrel for the likes of us.  Has anyone played courses with his name on them?  My one experience would not give me any confidence that if he were the architecture czar, there would be much created that would be of significant interest.

That might be true but it's still hard to argue with his comments about the industry.

Talking about how good of a father Nicklaus was: "Now, I think his father taught him extremely well or Barbara beat the hell out of him." Good stuff.

[Andrew Buck]

Great interview!

[Garland Bayley]

"I want you to look at the average handicap player in the last 15 years when all this new equipment has come along. Has not helped a damn one of them. The average handicapper is still 18.7. It has not helped them."

 

Low round in my handicap record right now was shot with persimmon woods.

[David Kelly]

Shooting fish in a barrel for the likes of us.  Has anyone played courses with his name on them?  My one experience would not give me any confidence that if he were the architecture czar, there would be much created that would be of significant interest.

Agree completely.  I've played a few of his courses in Florida and New Mexico.  Underwhelming to say the least.

[Andrew Buck]

Ironically, the only Trevino course I've played, Geneva National, which is almost 25 years old now is over 7,100 yards. 

I was somewhat open, but not anything to go out of your way to play. 

[Dan_Callahan]

I wonder if the average handicap player 15 years ago was playing courses at 6,200ish yards and today is playing from 6,700ish yards. If that's the case, and the average handicap remains 18.7, it seems that new equipment has in fact helped. I don't know if that's the case, but it's not quite as simple as saying that because the average handicap 15 years ago was the same as it is today, the equipment hasn't made a difference.

[John Kavanaugh]

I wonder if the average handicap player 15 years ago was playing courses at 6,200ish yards and today is playing from 6,700ish yards. If that's the case, and the average handicap remains 18.7, it seems that new equipment has in fact helped. I don't know if that's the case, but it's not quite as simple as saying that because the average handicap 15 years ago was the same as it is today, the equipment hasn't made a difference.

The average golfer was 15 years younger. My handicap has tripled from 38 to 53 yrs of age.

[Garland Bayley]

Who cares if they play from 6200 or 6700. It is all adjusted with ratings.

[William_G]

Shooting fish in a barrel for the likes of us.  Has anyone played courses with his name on them?  My one experience would not give me any confidence that if he were the architecture czar, there would be much created that would be of significant interest.

Agree completely.  I've played a few of his courses in Florida and New Mexico.  Underwhelming to say the least.

didn't even realize he put his name on any courses, LOL

[John Kavanaugh]

Who cares if they play from 6200 or 6700. It is all adjusted with ratings.

Garland,

As a master sandbagger you must understand that the change in ratings based on distance are not accurate. The USGA mistakenly believes that we can carry to each fairway and do not reach with our swings as we play from the wrong set of tees. I can't break 90 from the back tees at my home course. It is realistically 10 shots harder with only a 3.5 shot adjustment.

My God man you just admitted that your best posted score was with Persimmons. Bet you mod it up when in competition.

[Dan_Callahan]

Who cares if they play from 6200 or 6700. It is all adjusted with ratings.

Again, I'm not sure it's as simple as that. I've played from a range of tees, and ratings don't seem to correspond to actual changes in difficulty.

[Garland Bayley]

Dan and John,

That's because handicapping averages everything. I suppose the short hitting high handicapper will have trouble moving back from 6200 to 6700, but it just seems to me that the long hitting high handicap will benefit in performance vs. his handicap.

[Andrew Buck]

Dan and John,

That's because handicapping averages everything. I suppose the short hitting high handicapper will have trouble moving back from 6200 to 6700, but it just seems to me that the long hitting high handicap will benefit in performance vs. his handicap.

My dad is a 6 that carries the ball about 180.  He can regularly shoot 75 on his 6,100/120 course.

Bring him to a course that is 6,600 +, he just can't reach greens, and the slope doesn't give him enough.  Basically, it's a reasonable system, but far from perfect. 

[Garland Bayley]

Andrew,

And if you take long hitting, high handicap, website member George Pazin to the 6100 yard course he's muffing half wedges on his approaches to the greens. Take him to the 6600 yard course and he seldom has to hit more than 9 iron to the greens. If his handicap was set on the 6100 yard course, he would eat everyone up net on the 6600 yard course.

[Andrew Buck]

Andrew,

And if you take long hitting, high handicap, website member George Pazin to the 6100 yard course he's muffing half wedges on his approaches to the greens. Take him to the 6600 yard course and he seldom has to hit more than 9 iron to the greens. If his handicap was set on the 6100 yard course, he would eat everyone up net on the 6600 yard course.

Sorry for the confusion, that was really my point, just inverse.  

I think it's a reasonable system, but could never account for every type of 5, or 10, or 18.  Slope is supposed to address scratch vs. bogey golfers, but since one size doesn't fit all for either category (and certainly not for those in between), there are always going to be *good* and *bad* handicap players.

that said, give me the person who has established his index on the 75/145 course over the guy who has established in on the 69/120 course every day.  

[William_G]

Lee was saying that courses are not being built for people...regardless of handicap  

[Terry Lavin]

Lee was whining. As per usual for a well meaning contrarian.