One for JK

[Joey Smith]

John - I spoke with your brother last Sunday night in Denver at the US Amateur Public Links player's dinner. 

He was very proud that the APL was at Murphy Creek in Aurora.

I felt that the city was glad to have a relationship with him.

Enjoyed meeting him.

Joey

[RJ_Daley]

That is a cool and unusual sign.  Is it located at the course in Aurora and sort of a local tribute to their archie? 

http://www.usapl.org/news/fact-sheet.html

Wow, 7500 yards!  Well, maybe not so dramatic given the altitude... but still.  The few pictures they have shows quite a course surrounded by native grasses.  I think I remember a golf course management magazine article on the design, and the consideration of incorporating more native veg areas on the course and minimizing maintenance costs. 

[Joey Smith]

RJ

- Probably the most "angle oriented" course I have ever played.  The fairways are very wide.  A lot of risk reward options - the bigger the risk, the better angle to the putting green you'll have.  Throw in a bit of wind and it's a real challenge.

If you choose a "power route" and miss it just a little, you pay for it with very difficult rough.

Joey

[Matt_Cohn]

That is a cool and unusual sign.  Is it located at the course in Aurora and sort of a local tribute to their archie? 

http://www.usapl.org/news/fact-sheet.html

Wow, 7500 yards!  Well, maybe not so dramatic given the altitude... but still.  The few pictures they have shows quite a course surrounded by native grasses.  I think I remember a golf course management magazine article on the design, and the consideration of incorporating more native veg areas on the course and minimizing maintenance costs. 

7,500 in Denver would play like 6,800 or less.

[Joey Smith]

That is a cool and unusual sign.  Is it located at the course in Aurora and sort of a local tribute to their archie? 

http://www.usapl.org/news/fact-sheet.html

Wow, 7500 yards!  Well, maybe not so dramatic given the altitude... but still.  The few pictures they have shows quite a course surrounded by native grasses.  I think I remember a golf course management magazine article on the design, and the consideration of incorporating more native veg areas on the course and minimizing maintenance costs. 

7,500 in Denver would play like 6,800 or less.

It may be even a tad less than that...

[Jeff Tang]

I'm from the Chicago area and played Murphy Creek about two weeks ago and was hesitant at first to play the back tees given the yardage on the card.  I did play the tips and after hitting a 4 iron lay up on a par 5 from 240 out and having it bounce up onto the green I didn't worry too much about the distance after that.    I would agree that it played closer to a 6800 yard sea level course. 

[Joey Smith]

Jeff - What did you think about #13 - 528 yards, playing as a par 4?  It ranked #2 most difficult at last weeks APL at 4.420 -

# 17 - 248 yard par 3 was the most difficult at 3.535...

[Jeff Tang]

Joey,

Generally speaking I am not a big fan of converting par 5's into par 4's for tournaments.  The main reason is because I feel par 5's are designed to hold a particular type of shot coming into the green.  If it's a shallower, smaller green and the player wants to try for it in two as a five, no problem, they are taking on a certain risk for the potential of a reward.  However, if the hole is converted into a par 4 and now players are expected to get the ball onto the green with a long club in two for a green not designed for that purpose that's where it loses some appeal to me.  If the hole length itself is not changed, then I probably don't have as much as a problem with it, because a hole is a hole regardless if you call it a four or a five, but if you push the tees up slightly and call it a four that's when I have an issue.

Regarding the 13th specifically the green seemed large enough to accept a long club, however, so I don't really have too much of an issue with the decision.  Also, the length of the hole at that elevation and for that caliber of player probably was ok, on the fringe, but overall I'd say ok.  If they did make it a four the one change I would make would be to not cut off the fairway and to allow the bombers to be able to drive it as far as they want.

Interesting note in that I live 10 minutes from another Ken K. design called Orchard Valley in North Aurora, IL.  You can see it posted on the sign earlier in this thread.  Interesting in that it's North Aurora and Murphy Creek is in Aurora, CO.  Also interesting in that the 13th at Orchard Valley is a 440+ yard par 4 that the landing area is cut off so that you either can't hit a full driver or you need to hit a 3 wood.  For a hole that long it drives me nuts that you can't bomb it down there and you're forced to lay up on a long hole.  It consistently eats my lunch and is the one hole on the course I would change if I could.  Otherwise it's a great course and lots of fun to play.

[Mark Smolens]

Jeff, you must be a big hitter if you need to lay up on 13 when it's into a decent prevailing wind.  I just whack it down there and if there's any kind of wind at all the driver will very often not even reach the bottom of the downslope.  Very tough hole, tho #9 (a 470 yard par-4, also into the prevailing wind) is my nemesis at Orchard Valley.

[Jeff Tang]

Mark, from the tips at OV on 13 it's about 260 to get to the end of the fairway.  Into the wind I'm ok hitting a normal drive but without wind or with anything helping I need to hit something less than a full shot.  I agree re:  the ninth, one of the toughest on the course and mostly I'm playing for five there, I'm lucky to make four.

[Jim Colton]

I agree with Jeff that #13 is the weakest OV, as we've discussed many times before, during and mostly after rounds, usually after it has led to his demise.  I always have to hold back off the tee.  I just think on a 445-yard par 4 you should have the room to hit driver.  The tough thing about the hole is unless you hit it at the absolute very end of the fairway, you're faced with a treacherous downhill lie from 200+ yards to a slightly uphill green.  I've actually had decent success with the hole.  Last time out I bunted a 80% driver, dead straight and about 5 feet off the ground to the very end of the fairway (which makes you wonder why I don't just hit that shot every time).

I think there are at least 15 other states with a town called Aurora in them, so if KK keeps his monopoly on them, he'll have built himself a very nice career.