Which hole is harder? 18 @ Carnoustie or The Road Hole

[Mike Mosely]

I vote for 18 at Car-nasty.

[Chip Gaskins]

you have a much higher chance of making a really really big number at Carnousite.  that burn is terror with the wind.

[JESII]

I have not played or seen either in person, but based on TV, I think I would prefer to try to make a par at St. Andrews.

[KBanks]

Although peers in the category of difficulty, I'd give Carnoustie the edge in a close vote.

In terms of which hole is of more interest, it's the Road hole for me.

Ken

[J_ Crisham]

No question the 18th at Carnoustie is harder-much harder. My personal experience was driver, 5iron to 12 feet on the road hole ,easy par. Carnoustie driver,2iron, wedge,  2 putts-grateful for bogey. The Carnoustie burn is a much bigger issue than the tee shot at St Andrews.  Played both holes in a relative calm 2 days in a row.    Jack

[Jay Flemma]

I'll go with 18 at Carnoustie.  More penal.

[Bob_Huntley]

I don't know how many times Carnoustie's 18th has been holed in two shots, if at all, but the Road Hole has seen two 2s. One in 1926 and another ten or so years ago by an R&A member, a doctor from Alabama, whose name I cannot recall.

Bob

[David Lott]

Road Hole is a better hole, and I'll bet the stats tell you it plays higher to par than 18. In that sense it's harder. But 18 has the disaster potential.

Having just said that, I remember Duval in the Road Hole bunker. I'll amend: "18 has somewhat more disaster potential."

[Jeff Tang]

I've played both holes one time and made a Van de Velde (7) at Carnoustie and a 5 at the Road Hole.  I would say Carnoustie's 18th is harder because it seems you can play to make 5 at the Road Hole without too much difficulty by playing safely left most of the way.  However with the burn on 18, the ob left, and the length of the hole I'd say 5 is difficult to make at Carnoustie.

[rchesnut]

I played them both for the first time last week.   I played Carnoustie in the rain, but with little wind and managable rough, and made routine bogey on 18.   I played the Road Hole in windy conditions with a caddie who gave me a very aggressive line off the tee, and I paid the price.  I think the potential for disaster is greater at Carnoustie...if I just had to make a bogey, I'd pick the Road Hole and keep it left. 

[Doug Siebert]

The Road Hole has lost some of its teeth due to technology, whereas I think in some ways Carnoustie's 18th may be tougher because of it, because it is now harder for people to play it as a three shotter when conditions indicate that as the prudent option.

I'm probably biased though because my misses are almost all left, so I can aim right of the 'o' in Hotel with a driver and not fear the shot nearly so much as hitting an approach shot into the wind on Carnoustie's 18th with that OB lurking nearby (I came within a couple feet of that fence last time I played there, which I'll probably remember next time I play that hole!)  On the other hand, I've always done very well at Carnoustie, especially on the last three holes (playing them at -2 the first time, and at even the second) and always underperformed at TOC, so who knows?

Assuming one doesn't slice the drive, you aren't likely to incur penalty strokes on the Road Hole, and the road itself is easy enough to play from.  You just have to stay out of one bunker and you likely won't do worse than a 5 or maybe a 6 if you biff a short putt.  You can shoot almost any number on Carnoustie's 18th because between the burn and OB potentially in play on every shot until you are in spitting distance of the green, you could reach double digits if your swing and senses happen to desert you on the tee.

[Jon Wiggett]

Mike,

it depends how you look at it. In trying to hit the fairway from the tee then Carnoustie is the toughest when the wind is into your face as you need to decide layup or not. assuming you can clear the burn, then from 180 out the green on the 18th is a lot easier to hit than the 17th at TOC. Also I would say that so long as you are not in the burn getting up and down from around the green is an easier prospect than TOC 17th.

TOC presents the more consistant degree of difficulty and has more factors making it difficult (road, bunker, green shape and angle to the fairway, etc.) Carnoustie is dependant on the burn and wind.

[Jim Nugent]

A bit off topic, Birkdale's 6th is probably harder than either one.  At least it was this past weekend.  Average score was 4.7647.  Average at Carnie #18 last year was slightly over 4.6 IIRC. 

#6 had a higher scoring average than #17, the 572 yard par 5.  Average there was 4.7468. 

[Philip Spogard]

I would also say Carnoustie 18th is (quite a lot) tougher than the Road Hole. I think you can get into more trouble and the recovery chance is smaller. (But then again Carnoustie is tougher than any other course I have ever played).

[Paul Carey]

The 18th at Carnoustie by quite a bit.  It seems like water is everywhere and the OB is lurking as well.  The Road Hole is a much, much better and more interesting golf hole.

[Tommy Williamsen]

It has been many years since I played Carnoustie, but when I played it 18 was a par five for mortals. If you play each of the holes as three shoters Carnoustie is more difficult.  If you play them as two shoters Carnoustie still is more difficult.  I can't, however, reach 18 at Carnoustie in two.

[Kevin Pallier]

18th at Carnoustie - easily. To expand the question to those on the Open rota - I believe that Muirfield and Royal St Georges would probably push Carnoustie.

[Ben Stephens]

I played Carnoustie a month before last years Open. I had 3 on 14, 6 on 15 (lost ball off tee!), 2 on 16 (chipped in just off green pin high!), 5 on 17th (3 putts!) then the 18th - great drive that split the fairway then my second shot just missed the green left and 'dribbled' out of bounds! then I played my 4th from the same spot and duffed it into the Barry burn played six onto the green and 3 putts for a 9! (Putter was not working on that day!)

I would definitely say the 18th at Carnoustie ahead of the Road Hole because the Road Hole is easier to keep the score down!

[Gary Slatter]

From my experience the 18th at Carnoustie is tougher from the back tees and the 17th OC is tougher from the forward tees.  Both can be difficult but the average player can play the road hole in as few strokes as a good player so it's a tough place to give a stroke.

[Pat Burke]

A reasonably skilled player can make a pretty safe bogey on the road hole but playing safely.
It is possible to make any number at Carnoustie even with decent shots.  It is brutal