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Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
A Proposal
« on: August 13, 2008, 11:21:10 PM »
It appears that people can't show much decorum and courtesy when they stray from talking about golf course architecture as it lays on the ground.

How about we don't talk about:

-Who designed which golf course, if said course is older than, say, 60 years or so

-How each of us prefers to play the game

-The implements of the game

-Construction issues....should you guys really care?

-Maintenance, apart from how it affects play or effectiveness of specific architectural features (no need to hang a super or green chairperson inadvertently)


I'm sure the list could be longer, and it should be before the list of participants here grows shorter.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Jeff Fortson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Proposal
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2008, 11:24:52 PM »
Or how about not talking about anything that might upset someone.  Therefore we should all just meditate and never become more educated and expressive in our beliefs.  I like this idea. ;D

Why did I ever come out of my self imposed retirement from this site? ::) ::) ???


Jeff F.
#nowhitebelt

Jeff Fortson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Proposal
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2008, 11:26:26 PM »
For my 1100th post I have one last thing to say...

meow


Jeff F.

P.S.  If you've seen Super Troopers you'd get it.
#nowhitebelt

JWinick

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Proposal
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2008, 11:32:00 PM »
Not necessary.  We're all adults.   If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.   Under your proposal, this site would get boring fast. 

Dan King

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Proposal
« Reply #4 on: August 14, 2008, 01:57:12 AM »
I don't think we should be talking about anything in this forum.

The spirit of the Internet is the written word. It was good enough for our forefathers and I don't see any reason we should start talking. I personally don't want to hear all your crazy accents all shouting at once. I can get that all I want on cable TV.

Let's stop trying to Scotishize the Internet. You want to have a conversation, do it at the 19th hole. Usenet was founded on the written word, and you kids with your new fangled youtubes and photobuckets are just trying to ruin the grand tradition of the Internet. We must put a stop to this whole VIP concept before we ruin the Internet for everyone.

I know, some of you kids are going to call me a luddite and say "hey gramps, you use the Internet your way, and we'll use it our way." That's all fine and dandy until you have someone with a Texas accent yell at you for using further when you meant farther.

On a totally unrelated topic, how come nobody is talking up Dan Quayle for VP? It's gotta be the country just isn't ready for a white guy VP.
“If Al Gore invented the Internet, I invented spell check.”
 --Dan Quayle

Cheers (via the written word),
Dan King
Quote
When they invent the transporter on Star Trek, then the Internet will be a real threat.
 --Jerry Storch

Mike_Cirba

Re: A Proposal
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2008, 06:48:30 AM »
For my 1100th post I have one last thing to say...

meow


Jeff F.

P.S.  If you've seen Super Troopers you'd get it.

Jeff,

Too funny!

I'm glad you're back...we need more impassioned guys here, not less.

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Proposal
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2008, 09:08:20 AM »
On a totally unrelated topic, how come nobody is talking up Dan Quayle for VP? It's gotta be the country just isn't ready for a white guy VP.
“If Al Gore invented the Internet, I invented spell check.”
 --Dan Quayle

I thought he invented spelle checke!

(Let's call the whole thing off.)
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

John Kavanaugh

Re: A Proposal
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2008, 09:56:52 AM »
Besides any and all OT posts, the only other posts I hate, which are only started by people who play as singles, go home to their boring wives and children, and need someone to slam their idiot opinions against are the "bump" posts.  If a topic is not interesting enough to add to than it is not interesting enough to bump.

note:  Dear Wit Wizard, don't now bump this thread, we get it.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Proposal
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2008, 01:28:28 PM »
Quote
I'm sure the list could be longer, and it should be before the list of participants here grows shorter.

Joe, I'm almost certain that you are 180* wrong on that.  The longer the taboo list of topics, the 'smaller' the number of participants will be.  I thought all that fresh air in Idaho would expand your horizons and set you free, Joe.  ;)

-Who designed which golf course, if said course is older than, say, 60 years or so.

   Original architects and what naturally follows, their intentions of design and how that plays in terms of strategy and style/construction techniques is no longer important to this discussion board?  Shirley, you gest?

-How each of us prefers to play the game

   So, no archie or someone in charge of a greens committee contemplating remodelling or reconstruction should have information about how people report on their particular play skill and technique of the game they are designing for?

-The implements of the game.

   So that whole B&I impliment issue has no bearing on GCA in the brave new world of Joe?

-Construction issues....should you guys really care?

   So you are saying, you are a professional dozer operator, and anyone else trying to understand your methods and techiniques is now personal non-gratia?  That really sounds elitist and dismisive to me. 

-Maintenance, apart from how it affects play or effectiveness of specific architectural features (no need to hang a super or green chairperson inadvertently)

   Sure, definitely no need to hang a super or greens chair in comments that might be ignorant of the problems on the ground that may be causing some maintenance issue unduly; but there was that whole 'dumb and dumber' debate that Shack raised some years ago.  Sticking our heads in the sand to intentional trends in maintenance that are contrary to the spirit of the game, or just are fighting to promote the fert and chem industries and hoodwink people to thinking a certain over done and costly maintenance presentation is acceptable, is the other side of that coin of commenting on poor conditions not knowing the root cause.  There are just and unjust critics of every service or profession.  Should all comment be stiffled?  How will that help?

Jeff, meow meow... in deed.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

John Kavanaugh

Re: A Proposal
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2008, 01:30:58 PM »
Joe should have said "valuable participants" there are a million golf fans to fit the role of every architecture fan that we lose as OT threads rule the site.

Dave_Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Proposal
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2008, 02:26:02 PM »
It appears that people can't show much decorum and courtesy when they stray from talking about golf course architecture as it lays on the ground.

How about we don't talk about:

-Who designed which golf course, if said course is older than, say, 60 years or so

-How each of us prefers to play the game

-The implements of the game

-Construction issues....should you guys really care?

-Maintenance, apart from how it affects play or effectiveness of specific architectural features (no need to hang a super or green chairperson inadvertently)


I'm sure the list could be longer, and it should be before the list of participants here grows shorter.

Joe

Sorry Joel. I just don't think that's a very good proposal.
Best
Dave

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Proposal
« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2008, 02:41:47 PM »
Joe,

First, I apologize to Tony and all if my response on another thread had anything to do with this proposal.  It certainly is never my intent to cross the line into incivility.....but I have pushed the borders somewhat a few times in the ten years I have participated here.

That said, I believe the weakness and strength of such a board is that we never know where a discussion might go or what might be said.

Specifically, I think more than a few on here would be interested in some of the issues you mention, including construction issues.  The Fred Pickering thread and the natural question of how it varies from then to now is of interest to all in understanding how golf courses get designed and built, not just what the final result is.

Heck, if we limited the arguments on how stuff gets built, TEPaul might not be able to utter the phrase "flask architecture."  While I think he should tone down some of his statements, I always kind of liked that one.   I think we have to take the good and the bad.  Just MHO>
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Proposal
« Reply #12 on: August 14, 2008, 06:16:16 PM »
If everybody followed the 'face to face' rule - don't say anything on line you wouldn't say face to face in the grill room - you could discuss any topic with civility.

The problem is the anonymity of the web.  People feel like they can say whatever they want with impunity.

Of course the guys I know from playing with them - all bets are off!  ;D

TEPaul

Re: A Proposal
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2008, 06:50:18 PM »
Mr. Brauer:

It appears your tone and style has lapsed back into the informal and familiar. Buck up Buddy and haul out the class A manners again, if you don't mind.

Furthermore, if there ever was a practitioner of "Flask Architecture" and I mean EVER, it was definitely Fred Pickering!

By around mid-morning that guy got so smart and so creative it was totally frightening.

Ian Larson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Proposal
« Reply #14 on: August 14, 2008, 06:58:24 PM »
Is Joe Hancock actually serious about his proposal? Seriously? Or is it a joke? I really would like to know. I look at this website as one of the finest group of guys that are so passionate not only about golf course architecture but also the game. The spirit of the game truly lives in the discussions on here and Joe's proposal would be censorship and take away from the site. All topics he suggested are so relevant to the architecture of a course. I dont get it.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Proposal
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2008, 07:04:20 PM »
Ian,

Joe's avatar says it all....just look out for the cow being flung over the castle wall!!  ;D

While normally the comediec relief on GCA.com, I think his heart is in the right place but tend to agree more along the lines of Bill McBride.  Nothing golf related should be off-limits, we should just learn to play a little nicer in the sandbox.

Couldn't there be just a little more of this around here?

« Last Edit: August 14, 2008, 07:06:05 PM by Kalen Braley »

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Proposal
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2008, 10:03:26 PM »
OK, ok......I'll explain, if that's really necessary.....

I think you guys have the right, and the passion to discuss anything to do with golf.

I think architects of the past are important to study.

I think maintenance directly impacts architecture.

I think the implements of the game have changed architecture, both old and new.

Technology is here stay, like it or hate it.

How a course is built is at least interesting, if not important.


All of those things are not worth showing one's ass, IMO.



Having said all that, bear with me as I feel a bit melancholy concerning some of the behaviors here and, maybe more importantly, the lack of focus on what's actually on the ground for us to enjoy our rounds of golf on.

Sorry for the interruption.....carry on.

Joe

p.s. I'll try to find something humor worthy and get my groove back........it's been a long summer away from home!
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Proposal
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2008, 10:41:37 PM »
 One word guys:

Cumbaya.  Can't we all just get along.

Thanks, Kalen, we are a team of two.  ;D