[Craig Disher]

Thanks to an earlier post of the 1907-1932 Rye GC routing, I took a couple of hours and tramped around the area that covered much of Rye's original front nine. I'm here to tell you that restoration isn't always the answer.

Looking back from the original 3rd green towards the approach. The ground is flat and the dunes in the background (the current #4 runs along horizon) give a hint of what Colt must have perceived as a mistake - placing the holes on such uninteresting ground. The busy coastal road is just beyond the fence.



The view from the old 5th tee shows more of a problem. Even if the scrub tree line is removed, how do you synchronize your drive with the oncoming traffic?



The approach to the 5th green is problematic with the immovable obstruction intervening. Fortunately, the shot plays with the prevailing wind.



Some of the old course still exists. This is a picture of the old 9th green, now used as a practice area. The old 1st tee is to the right and behind the green.



One thought that connects to an earlier thread: I played Rye a few times and even though the course received a significant amount of rain over the past 2 months, some of the fairways, 16 for example, were pretty sparse. Moving the course from the flat, fertile land shown in the pictures up onto the dunes may have created better holes but it placed them on inferior turf. The ground at Deal and Littlestone had responded much better to the rain.

[Tom MacWood (Guest)]

Craig
Intersting report. From what I understand Colt was not keen on altering the original holes and Simpson's plan was adopted, followed by other alterations by other architects. Rye appears to be a course that evolved over the years much for the better. What happened to the 'Soup Bowl'?

[Paul Turner]

Craig

Thanks, yes no chance of a restoration there!  I wonder what some of this ground looked like untouched?  There appeared to be quite a few contours on the original plan for the area which is now the car park (old 4,5,6).

Interestingly, I don't think that Colt had the choice of going beyond the dune line where the 6th,7th and 8th are currently (and 13,14 on the inward 9).  The sea was MUCH closer, and that area, along with the Jubilee 9 was used by sunbathers...

From the club history:

"If today one stands on the eighth tee of the old course and surveys the Jubilee course and the distanr sandhills, it is difficult to believe that at the turn of the century the greater part of the area was under the sea; and even harder to believe that as recently as the mid-sixties the sand hills did not exist, and from time to time the tide borke through the bank on which the fifth tee of the Jubilee is situated and flooded the left hand side of the eighth fairway.

The process of land recovery took place over many years, as the coastal current changed and the sea retreated gradually towards the harbour mouth.  By the mid-sixties there was a large enough area of dry land to encourage the thought that one day it would be suitable for golf if the occasional flooding by the sea could be prevented...Thus the matter rested for the following 5 years and all the while the sea currents were diverted further from Rye as a result of the new sea wall at Pett level and by 1970 a line of sandhills has sprung up, giving a complete protection from the sea and floodings."

What a fast change in the terrain!

Good to see the old 9th green, in the photo, I never took a look at it when I was there.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Phenominal stuff Craig. I too am interested to what has happened to the Soup Bowl, one of the more dramatic, quirky hazards of all-time. (Mind you almost barbaric)

I'll call you tomorrow. (today when you get this!)

[Craig Disher]

The Soup Bowl is still there but the sleepers have been removed. I believe it was located in the large pit on the left of the #18 fairway about 180 yards off the tee. That position placed it just in front of the old 18th tee which was located off the dune on the flat ground near the current 17th green.

I'm not certain about that - it's possible that the SB was farther along the 18th fairway on the right but from an early picture, the topography didn't look right.

Regarding the Jubilee 9, I've often walked to Camber Castle, a 16 century relic across the river. During my first visit, I saw what appeared to be the remnants of greens and bunkers scattered around the castle. Thinking it must have been called Camber GC or something of the sort, I checked the local library and asked around Rye but no one could recall a course ever being there. This year, I was talking to one of the artisan members at Rye and he said that the Camber course was originally an additional 9 for the Rye GC. It was abandoned during WWII and never reclaimed.  Tom, does the Rye history make any references to the course at Camber? Perhaps the Jubilee was built as a replacement.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

One of the best descriptions of Rye can be seen in Hutchinson's British Golf Links. (Hold on a second, I'm going to sell a kidney right now so I can buy a copy.)

Tons o' pictures and descriptions from one of the games most phenominal eye's--Hutchinson.

I'll try to post Darwin's verse on Rye later tonight.

(Craig, Haven't had a second all day today, but if you get this and you are still up, shoot me an email if it is ok to call!)

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