Its official: Yale #18 is no longer controversial

[Mike Sweeney]

This Google image seems to pretty accurately reflect what I saw today.

1. There are now multiple opens from the multiple tees. The big hitters can now try and hit onto the upper tier. Trees are cleared, grass/rough/fescue are all reasonable now and will penalize but probably not create lost balls in "in play" areas.

2. The fairway snakes through the tee ball landing area, creating lots of options.

3. The upper and lower second shot landing areas are now grown in, with a resonable strip of rough in between. The entire right side has lost dozens of trees.

4. Green has been expanded now for a few years and has grown in nicely.



Okay reality is it is still a wild hole with strategy and guessing on each shot, but now it is very fair and fun too.

Thanks Scott Ramsey. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike,

Has the disparity in elevations between the two fairways been maintained ?

[Mike Sweeney]

Mike,

Has the disparity in elevations between the two fairways been maintained ?

Yes. I doubt you will ever see any significant earth moving at Yale for both historical and cost reasons. All the work being done is under the Super's guidelines which includes tree removal.

[Jim Nugent]

Does anyone know how much it cost to build Yale, back in the 1920's? 

[Brad Klein]

$450,000-$540,000, originally budgeted for 36 holes. They ran out of dynamite on the 18th tee and just quit.

[Joel_Stewart]

Whats is Scotts timeframe for restoring the course?  Another 2 or 3 years?  When does he plan to work on the 3rd (maybe its the 4th) green which was moved?

[Tim Bert]

Hope it is the 4th green and not the 3rd.  I wouldn't change a thing about the 3rd hole.

[Tom Dunne]

Tim Bert,

The current third green really lacks character compared to most of the others on the course. I have trouble picturing what a "double punchbowl" closer to the water would look like, but I have to think it would make the second shot more interesting. No matter what, though, that hole will always find a way to kill me.

[Tim Bert]

Agree that it is one of the calmer greens, but it has never really bothered me given that the approach is completely blind.  I like having a chance to make a putt from anywhere since I'm not sure about the location of the target.  There are plenty of wild greens at Yale already.

Wouldn't moving the green toward the water make the approach less than blind for some approaches from the right side of the fairway?

[Tom Dunne]

Yes, it would, but that's something that would encourage players to flirt with the water on the first shot.

[Pete Stankevich]

That image just doesn't do justice to the elevation change on that hole (or on #3 pictured below it to the left or #10 and #11 above it).
Scott has done a great job there and everywhere on the course, but 18 will always be unique to put it kindly.
Earlier in the spring, I hit a drive slightly right and ended up in the rough with the enormous hill right in front of me.  Fortunately, I was able to get a 5 iron over it and only had a wedge in.
Playing fast and firm, often downwind, and sometimes getting a downhill kick on the second shot, it never plays as long as its yardage.

[John Foley]

I was at Yale a few weeks ago and loved the course. However one of the most confounding things is the lower fw on 18. Unless you missed right off the tee and you could not get to the top of the hill, why would you use that option?

[Tom Dunne]

John Foley,

I think the lower fairway also becomes an option if you hit an excellent drive through the gap to the second, elevated landing area. The benefit is that if you come in from that side, you'll have a clear view of the green and are more likely to have a flat lie. When you're on top of the mountain playing your third shot, unless you're at the very end the shot is blind, and there are some funny lies to be had up there, too.

[Jim Nugent]

I would be grateful if someone could post pictures of number 18.  From the tee, the landing areas, the upper and lower fairways, the green.  I've read so much about this hole, but still don't have a clear picture of what it actually looks like to the golfer. 

[Mark Bourgeois]

Jim

This is all I got for you, a coupla pics stolen from a Scott Ramsay presentation.  Maybe we can sweet talk SweeneyMike the Golfer into a command performance as SweeneyMike the Snapper, especially since This Site Has Lost Its Way! no longer participates here.

18 from the tiger tee pre tree-removal:


18 from the middle tee post tree-removal:


It's all so obvious and clear now, isn't it!

Mark

[Mike Sweeney]

Maybe we can sweet talk SweeneyMike the Golfer into a command performance as SweeneyMike the Snapper, especially since This Site Has Lost Its Way! no longer participates here.

Next time I am driving past the Pound Ridge GC exit to Yale, I will bring my camera and take a few pics of 18.

[John Foley]

Some pics froma few weeks ago

Here is the tee shot from the middle tee's



From the top landing area looking back at the tee - that back tee is a long way away from this point.



view of the green from the end of the left hand (higher) fw side.



view looking back of at the right hand (lower) fw side.



The width of the lower fw just does not seem to buy you anything - maybe I'm wrong.

From the middle tee's a good drive carying to the top level will leave a mid/long iron which will cary all the way down the high side to the flat section and a wedge (sub 100 yards) into the green.

From the back tee it's got to be a whole other hole & strategy.

[Tim Bert]

Two more views of 18 to help with the context of the "mountain in the middle."

One view from near the tee shot landing area, looking ahead the the second shot


And one view looking back from the green

[Jim Nugent]

I really appreciate the photos.  Brad Klein said when they were building Yale, they ran out of dynamite on the 18th hole.  Does that mean they never really finished the 18th hole as Raynor conceived it?  i.e. if they had more money/TNT, would they have demolished more of that mountain, creating a very different hole? 

[Mark Bourgeois]

Jim

No. It's an old wives' tale, like the story that 17 green is built over crap hauled over from the dump (to ensure the green "settled" differently each year, erasing local knowledge acquired the previous season).

The course ran into cost overruns (it was astonishingly expensive as it was) but according to university records the construction committee gave Raynor the go-ahead to finish the work according to the original design.  The committee's plan was to make it up on the revenue side via an aggressive solicitation campaign, which they were forced to abandon when it came to light the university was gearing up for an endowment campaign.

Mark

PS When Tom Weiskopf was invited to review the course and propose changes, supposedly he said the first thing he'd do was blow up 18. So the TOSU guy didn't get the job and unsurprisingly they went with the Old Blue.  I suggested the Big Red guy but they didn't know me from the Color Purple, which come to think of it is what you get by mixing blue with red...

[Jim Nugent]

Mark, Yale budgeted something like $250,000 to build the course.  I knew it went way over, and Brad said the final cost came in around $450K to $540K.  Do you know the exact figure? 

[Mark Bourgeois]

Jim

Sorry to take so long to get back. I think the best figure is $400,000, but I haven't turned up any exact figures.

That number might be a little low but probably not much - it could be as high as $450,000 but no more and probably less.

The spiralling cost apparently became something of a scandal; the budget called for $250,000.

Where do I get the 400k figure? The committee in charge of getting the course done issued a report on why they didn't stop when the hit the budgeted number.  In this report they described their justification: a planned campaign to recruit, from alumni, patron members who would pay $1,000 each. The committee in this report stated they anticipated signing up at least 400 patrons, thus a figure of 400k.

The report says the committee halted this campaign after learning of the university's plan for a major fundraising drive. How convenient!

One thing I don't know is whether the 400k figure includes the cost of the amazing clubhouse. Were it not made of logs, we would call it a Quonset hut. It was built at a cost of $4,000!

Regards
Mark

[BCrosby]

Those building costs are extraordinarily high. Why was Yale that expensive? Even figuring the lake is totally man-made, $450K still sounds over the top.

ANGC was built five years later for less than a quarter of Yale's cost. Behr's budget for Rancho was $200,000 in '29, considered at the time a very expensive course.

[Anthony Fowler]

I got a chance to see this hole just this past weekend.  I dislike it less every time I see it, but I still think it's one of the worst on the course.  This is especially disappointing given that it is the only real 3 shotter.

A missed tee ball is penalized very harshly.  I played from the back tee box and pulled my drive maybe 10 yards and was blocked out on the second shot.  Normally, this would be fine, but the this level of demand off the tee with a blind fairway is not a good combination IMO.  The hole is fun at times and definitely quirky, but not a good hole in my opinion.

[JMorgan]

I really appreciate the photos.  Brad Klein said when they were building Yale, they ran out of dynamite on the 18th hole.  Does that mean they never really finished the 18th hole as Raynor conceived it?  i.e. if they had more money/TNT, would they have demolished more of that mountain, creating a very different hole? 

It cost around $70k to get rid of all that rock, $150k for construction total.  Nearly half the budget on rock clearance.  (That according to CBM in Scotland's Gift.)