[Joey Smith]

Tom,

I saw the drawing in the downstairs kitchen as well.  One thing I noticed on the drawing was
the closeness of some of the holes on the back.  But the only time I could see another hole was
standing on the back tee of #11 you could see #17.

Awesome job!!!

This thread started and was through the 4th hole the day we played.  I have really enjoyed your commentary as well as Kyle's

Thanks

I never did see that dang ocean behind #7 -that was rumored to be airbrushed in there. 

[Tom_Doak]

I'm sorry to have gotten the discussion off track, because the 17th is possibly my favorite hole on the golf course.  Most of it is natural but one part is VERY artificial ... I'm curious if anyone (anyone I haven't told already) has noticed what we did there.

[Mike Policano]

Tom, you told me when we played there during the golf and music festival, but I still don't believe it.  When I explain it to people they say, "no way".  I doubt anyone will guess.

Cheers

[Kyle Henderson]

I'll take a stab at it, with the full expectation of being completely wrong.

Did you create the high left portion of the fairway with fill?

[John Kirk]

With no wind or a slight wind at my back, I try for the little flat spot just left of the right fairway bunker.  I aim right at the ridge between the high and low fairways, and hope it kicks down to the little flat spot.  From there it's a short iron.  If you miss right short of the bunker, it's a very tough but possible.  The right fairway bunker, as far as I can tell, is death.  Bogey or worse.

If you really belt it down the left side in the fairway, you can have about 200-210 yards left from a flat lie, but the fairway slopes up slightly, and the shot is just barely blind.

You want to miss left of the green, if you miss.

The back right pin is the birdie pin.  Balls settle in there.

[Tim Bert]

I was thinking about geussing what Kyle said, so I'll try something else.  How about the dune that is just left and before the fairway that looks like one of the natural chop hills and partially obscures the view of the fairway?

[Tom_Doak]

Tim:

Nope, the dune you picked out is natural.  It would be hard to re-establish native stuff on a hill like that ... pretty much all the earthwork we did at Ballyneal is covered by fairway grass now.

What you didn't guess is that there were a whole ridge of dunes just like the one you noticed running down the middle of the fairway, and then falling away into two deep pits on the left side.  We cut the tops off the dunes and filled in the bowls to the left, so if you drove left you'd still be able to see where you were going with the next shot.  It was probably ten feet of fill on the left in a couple of spots.

[Tim Bert]

Well,

I didn't think you could make that dune look so natural, but when I read Mike P's comment I thought it must be something pretty incredible, so I went with the most natural looking feature and thought you might have pulled one over on us.

It's pretty hard to imagine that ridge line looking at all my pictures as well.  Great stuff!

[Kyle Henderson]

Tim:

Nope, the dune you picked out is natural.  It would be hard to re-establish native stuff on a hill like that ... pretty much all the earthwork we did at Ballyneal is covered by fairway grass now.

What you didn't guess is that there were a whole ridge of dunes just like the one you noticed running down the middle of the fairway, and then falling away into two deep pits on the left side.  We cut the tops off the dunes and filled in the bowls to the left, so if you drove left you'd still be able to see where you were going with the next shot.  It was probably ten feet of fill on the left in a couple of spots.

Do I get full marks for my guess?

[Kyle Henderson]

Hole #18

Sweeping gracefully from right to left, this finishing hole takes the golfer through the widest corridor seen since the 13th . The hole can be shortened by challenging the sand hazards guarding the left side, however the bunker guarding the front of the green favors an approach from the right side.

The “463 yard” tees are below and right of the shorter tees, but they offer a straighter angle of attack. From there, the first bunker complex on the left requires a modest carry of 245 yards. The near edge of the second bunker complex on the left is 300 yards away. The third bunker complex on the left is adjacent to the green.


The forward tees (425-375 yards) are higher and farther left, creating a sharper angle. The fairway is very wide, with loads of room to the right.


Past the bunkers guarding the landing zone, the fairway slopes slightly from right to left. As the green runs from short right to long left (at a total depth of 40 yards), and one is generally (right-handed and) playing with the ball above their feet, it is usually best to aim for the right side of the green and play for a draw.


The approach plays uphill. Left hole locations require an extra club or two.


Two subtle ridges intrude from the right, dividing the green into three sections. Given the large expanse of the putting surface, flag-hunting approach shots are at a premium for those seeking to close out a match or post a low score.


From the Ballyneal website:
Looking back at the majestic finale, one is strongly compelled by a desire to head straight for the 1st tee once more.




Overall, the course offers a world-class sequence of holes, each distinctive and memorable. While an amateur can ably navigate its corridors using a limited selection of shots, the accomplished golfers are challenged to (and rewarded for) the use of their entire arsenal of skills. The variety of weather conditions and teeing options ensure that the course will never grow tiresome or repetitive. What's more, it’s stunningly and uniquely beautiful. I offer my congratulations and thanks to all who created and invited me to experience this astonishing masterpiece.

[Tim Pitner]

An excellent photo of the so-called "cooch bunker" . . .   

Hole #18

[Jay Flemma]

Can we please come up with a different name   My eyes are burning from that one

[Kyle Henderson]

An excellent photo of the so-called "cooch bunker" . . .   

You stay classy, San Diego.

[Tim Pitner]

Jay,

I apologize for the vulgarity--just recalling a bit of humor on the course. 

[Ash Towe]

Kyle,
Thanks for a great thread and wonderful photos of a modern masterpiece.

[John Kirk]

#18 is one of my favorite holes, and one of my favorite finishing holes.  Driving to the left side of the fairway is best for left side pin placments, while right (or center) side pin placments are best attacked from the right side of the fairway.  The little front greenside bunkers dictate play.  Those little bunkers almost always yield a very difficult recovery shot, with an awkward stance and/or a steep recovery angle.

I got up and down for par from the front bunker on my last trip.  I had a downhill lie, with my feet outside the bunker, to a front right (-11) pin.  I got it up in the air quickly and onto the green, but still 20 feet long.  I just tapped my putt, and the ball was accelerating as it hit the back of the cup and dropped for a 4.

It's best to miss your approach shot to the left for pins in the center of the green.  The putt from the right side usually has to traverse a big ridge to get there.

I love that #18 is so wide, yet has preferred lines of play.  If you're feeling a little less accurate, you can always aim for the center and swing confidently.  Other examples of wide and long par 4 finishers in my universe include Sand Hills, Stanford University, and Riviera.

Great job, Kyle.  These detailed hole-by-hole threads are terrific.  I'm pulling for a Sand Hills thread like this in the near future, so a new contingent of commentators can offer their insight. 

[Jim Colton]

Kyle,

  Another thanks for posting your pics and the hole-by-holes.  I've been staring at these pictures, daydreaming of a return trip ever since I left Holyoke 3 weeks ago.  My work productivity has plummeted recently.

  Jim

[Kyle Henderson]

I'm pulling for a Sand Hills thread like this in the near future, so a new contingent of commentators can offer their insight. 

JK,
I didn't get nearly as many shots at Sand Hills on this trip (and they were all taken in haste at mid-day ) But I'll try to post a few of my "money shots" on another thread.

All,
Thanks for the kind words and for providing your own insights and anecdotes.

I hope many others from the treehouse will someday be able to enjoy Ballyneal for themselves. It more than lived up to my lofty expectations. I can't wait to see Pacific Dunes (November 2008!)

Note: I think it would be nifty if all of Ballyneal's prominent bunkers were individually named (ala The Old Course), though the "Cooch Bunker" may not bring that process to the most auspicious of starts. Then again, "The Devil's A-Hole" is considered hallowed ground in our circle.

[Wyatt Halliday]

and yet another bump for Kyle's wonderful work.

Just ask him

[Patrick Glynn]

So I am going to Ballyneal this summer and just stumbled upon this thread. Any further recommendations on what to look out for? I do appreciate that there can be a certain amount of information overload / better discover for yourself... but I am looking forward to it & I have been out of the golf loop for some that  I am going a little stir crazy.

Patrick

[Jerry Kluger]

Patrick:  There really isn't anything to look out for at Ballyneal - just have fun.  The course has plenty of width and your caddy should be able to give you more than enough information to make the experience enjoyable.  The best advice I can give you is don't hurry around the course, especially if you are only playing one round but even if you aren't, you need to spend some time on the greens putting to various hole locations and trying recovery shots from different angles.  If you arrive late in the day then just take a few clubs and start walking - there are so many possible loops which can lead you back to the clubhouse that even if you only have time for 6 holes it will just build your anticipation for an entire round.

[Chris_Hufnagel]

I had studied everything I could get my hands on about the course before heading out there, and was completely blown away within 5 minutes of walking off the 1st tee.

Jim,

I totally agree. It is virtually impossible to capture the sheer drama and scale of the place in a photograph.

I am going to have the privilege of experiencing Ballyneal for the first time at the end of September. I am currently in the process of trying to get my hands on everything I can before the visit...

I have run several searches on this site and ran across this post which has me even more excited than I was before.

Any advice for a first time visitor to this course and to this region?

I can't wait.

[Jim Colton]

It's amazing how different the course looks now. The bunkers have gotten more rugged and gnarly since Kyle's visit in 2008.

[Brian Potash]

Chris,

A few pieces of advice -

1.  If coming from Denver, don't drive over 82 MPH.  That's the over/under.  I found out the hard way.

2.  If you can handle lots off off color jokes without getting offended, request "Maximus" for your caddy on one day.

3.  Have fun.  As long as you are respectful the place has almost no rules.

Brian

[Josh Tarble]

BN just looks incredible, I hope to one day have te privilege of playing there.

Thanks for this thread as well. These are the reasons I wanted to join GCA.

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