[Doug Ralston]

Follow the money!

When it became practical to build quality golf courses and expect return on investment, they were built. During the past few years, for obvious reasons, even rural areas could profit with something special.

But I fear that is changing in the USA. We shall see.

Doug

[Casey Wade]

Arguably,

Nashville
Memphis
Chattanooga

Okay, I'll bite on Memphis.  The older courses like Memphis Country Club, Windyke, Chickasaw, and Ridgeway(?) are far better than what I feel is the best new course, TPC Southwind.

[Dan_Callahan]

Oddly, in a few years Boston might fit that bill. Or at a minimum there might actually be some parity between old and new. On the old side are the greats of TCC, Myopia, Charles River, Salem, Essex, etc. But among the new are Boston GC, Old Sandwich, Turner Hill, Renaissance, Black Rock, etc.

[Phil McDade]

Milwaukee.  I count sheboygan as basically just a far north suburb of Milwaukee and since they draw so much of their play from there, I'd have to say that in most peoples' minds, those 4 beat the pants off of Milwaukee CC, Tripoli, Ozaukee and Blue Mound.

Throw Erin Hills into the mix and it's a rout. 

Shivas:

I know folks who'd throw in the Bull (Nicklaus) among the better new courses in Sheboygan; one guy who made a trip a few years ago of playing every single public course in Wisconsin said the Bull was tougher than any of the four Herb Kohler courses.

Now, if you're going to include Sheboygan as Milwaukee suburbia, then you have to include among the classic-era courses the very under-rated Pine Hills in Sheboygan, a course that gave the state's best absolute fits a few years ago when it hosted the State Open. It was good enough to be selected as the final qualifying course for the US Senior Open last year at next-door WStraits; maybe the toughest greens in the state?

And if you're gonna throw Erin Hills in the mix for new, the original Langford-Moreau nine at West Bend CC (closer to Milwaukee than Sheboygan) deserves some consideration. I'd argue. In short, I don't think it's a rout.

For what it's worth:

a) a guy I once worked with (and a very good golfer; one-time city of Madison champ) who had played every single good-to-great course in Wisconsin (including all four of the Kohler set), once told me that Milwaukee CC was the best course in the state, and he said it was "by a fairly wide margin." Although I haven't played it, I think the course sometimes gets less credit than it deserves because it's so low-key and deliberately stays out of the spotlight (something that is the exact opposite of the Kohler courses, Herb Kohler, and Pete Dye, generally...). That may change this year, as MCC will co-host with neighbor Brown Deer the US Mid-Am.

b) I'd take Ozaukee over Meadows Valley, which I've always thought (with a few exceptions) is over-the-top goofy and penal. Does this look like a well-thought-out greensite?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/71018547@N00/1428269567

[Glenn Spencer]

Ditto Pat Craig on Indy.  And if the 12th most populous city in the country isn't a major city, then you need to rethink what major is...

Old courses that people always talk about though are Broadmoor, Highlands and Country Club of Indianapolis.  Of those only Broadmoor holds a candle to what has been built in and around the city in the last fifty years.  If you really are sticking to within the city limits, The Fort is your best course in Indy.  You get outside of that the debate expands.  Personally I find Broadmoor generally overrated and it is propped up because of two things, it is a Ross design and it hosted a PGA Senior event for a few years.  If you eliminate the tourney from its history and leave the same course but designed by someone like Bill Diddel, it becomes an afterthought like Highlands and CCI. 

Chris,

I had no idea that Broadmoor hosted a Senior Event, not that that matters because Kings Island right down my street did that. Anyway, I really enjoyed Broadmoor, outside of the tee shot on 10, I thought it was fabulous.  Would you put it above Meridian or no?

[Mike Hendren]

Arguably,

Nashville
Memphis
Chattanooga

Okay, I'll bite on Memphis.  The older courses like Memphis Country Club, Windyke, Chickasaw, and Ridgeway(?) are far better than what I feel is the best new course, TPC Southwind.

Casey, I qualified this with "arguably."   There are those who would consider Spring Creek Ranch better than Memphis CC.  Personally, I'd play 8 out of 10 rounds at MCC if given the choice between it and SCR.

Mike

[Chris_Clouser]

Glenn,

I've never seen Meridian Hills except for driving by it on the road.  The green on the Northeast corner of the course with the pond fronting it looks really nice though, or at least what I can make out between the iron bars from the front seat of my Saturn.   

I think most people would put Meridian about the same as Highlands and CCI from what I hear.  Kind of funny that I used to live up the street from it, but never walked the course or anything.   

[Glenn Spencer]

Glenn,

I've never seen Meridian Hills except for driving by it on the road.  The green on the Northeast corner of the course with the pond fronting it looks really nice though, or at least what I can make out between the iron bars from the front seat of my Saturn.   

I think most people would put Meridian about the same as Highlands and CCI from what I hear.  Kind of funny that I used to live up the street from it, but never walked the course or anything.   

Gotcha!! I thought the same thing when I pulled up. That hole is a real pussycat actually. Meridian is pretty good, really good in stretches. I found 18 to be an abomination though.  I still don't know where to drive it on that hole and the green is kind of shoehorned in. That is a nice area though.

[Casey Wade]

Arguably,

Nashville
Memphis
Chattanooga

Okay, I'll bite on Memphis.  The older courses like Memphis Country Club, Windyke, Chickasaw, and Ridgeway(?) are far better than what I feel is the best new course, TPC Southwind.

Casey, I qualified this with "arguably."   There are those who would consider Spring Creek Ranch better than Memphis CC.  Personally, I'd play 8 out of 10 rounds at MCC if given the choice between it and SCR.

Mike

Totally forgot about Spring Creek Ranch.  I'd go 50/50 on rounds between the two.

[Tim Leahy]

Matt, The definition of old is a curious one regarding the Pebble area. My thoughts are wherever one places MPCC tips the scales.  Just a personal preference. Jack

I love MPCC as much as anyone. I haven't played Cypress or Pebble. As much as I love MPCC, I don't anticipate anyone making that case that those two courses are better than the Pebble/Cypress combo.

Matt, you haven't played Pebble yet? Then this is your month, I just got an email from the NCGA, discount green fees at Pebble this month for NCGA members, it's only $450 with a cart and you don't have to stay at the hotel to make a tee time.

[Tom Huckaby]

"only $450"... has a sadder notion ever been posted in here?

Sigh... the sad part to me is that Tim is right, Matt ought to do this now if he can... it's likely to be $1000 in a few more years.

TH

[Kirk Gill]

Denver?  Is Colorado Golf Club better than Cherry Hills?

IMO, yes it is and Castle Pines is better than either one. All three are very good.

But Cherry Hills isn't necessarily the oldest golf course in Denver, as it dates from 1922.  Overland golf course refers to itself as the "oldest course west of the Mississippi" (although from other threads on this site I think that claim may not be entirely accurate), and opened in 1895. Denver Country Club moved to its current site in 1905, although the course has undergone a lot of changes since. Lakewood Country Club dates to 1908, and City Park opened in 1920.

And if you broaden out and include, say, all courses built in Denver in the 1920's, you'd also be including Willis Case (1928), Wellshire (1926), Evergreen Golf Course (1927), and there are likely others. So if you then include Cherry Hills with all of the above, does that group constitute Denver's best courses? I've played all of the public entries mentioned above, and while I have love for them all (I did grow up on them), I don't know that they stand up against the new publics around, much less the new private clubs.

Of the private courses listed above, I have only had the opportunity to play DCC, and I dearly loved the experience. THAT course is great, if not as well known as CHCC, and in my mind stands up to any of the newer courses I've played. Once up to that level, I'm loathe to say one is better than another, my friends.

[Chris Avore]

For being the capital of the country, Washington DC does not have very many great courses.  They have very good but not great.  Congressional and Chevy Chase are as close as we get.  Four Streams is  a very good new course.  RTJ is disappointing. 

Oh come on Tommy, you don't think William Flynn bottled up some of the magic from Shinnecock, the Cascades and The Country Club and poured some of it on Rock Creek?

 

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()