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Criss Titschinger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Buck Point, Liberty, IN
« on: July 01, 2008, 11:04:45 PM »
The word I would always associate Buck Point Golf Club with is “potential”.  I always thought the layout was very interesting, but the conditions left something to be desired.  Two years ago, they changed superintendents.  As I visited this year for my fourth round at Buck Point, I hoped that it would finally live up to its potential.  I’m happy to report it’s closer than it’s ever been.

The course starts out with a forgettable medium length par 4.  Holes 2 and 3 are short par 4 dogleg lefts.  2 (pictured below) requires a forced carry over a ravine, leaving the player with a mid/short iron in to an open green.  3 doglegs harder than 2 and requires the player to go to the air with the second shot. 



For me, the fun starts at the par 5 4th.  For most, this is a three-shot par 5.  You start off level, then around 200 yards, you go down a 30ft. ravine.  The green is another 30ft. back up the ravine.  If the third shot is played from the bottom of the ravine, expect to take at least two, if not three clubs up to account for the elevation.




P.B. Dye comes right back at 6 with another par 5.  The hole curves right all the way.  The player must ask himself how much he wants to cut the corner, risking mounds, woods, and a pot bunker.  While reachable in two by the long hitters, this green complex is much smaller and contoured than the previous hole, and is protected by bunkers in the front left and back right.




6 is a cool par 3 along Brookville Lake.  Certainly not a hole you would expect in the middle of Indiana.  Typically the wind blows hard through here, but during my last visit, the wind was rather calm.




Hole 7 is notorious for flooding.  Quite frankly, I think this hole is too low to be so close to the lake.  The grass here is never in good condition and it’s usually pretty soggy.  As you can see from my pictures below, the hole doesn’t look too bad and the green complex is actually quite nice.  Something tells me they’re going to have to re-route 7, 8, and 9 someday.




8 and 9 are good, not great holes.

Back 9 in next post...

Criss Titschinger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Buck Point, Liberty, IN
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2008, 11:11:19 PM »
I think most that play Buck Point look at the back 9 as the stronger of the 9s.  It starts out with 10, a 494 par 5 that is easily reachable in two for the long hitter.  There’s nothing fancy about the fairway.  The green complex is three-tiered and very long.  If the pin is at the back, the hole plays at least 35 yards longer.  Very difficult to judge the distance and make a putt.



Hole 11 reminds me a bit of #9 at Shaker Run.  A sweeping right medium par 4.  Bite off as much as you can chew off the tee and then hit a precise iron shot.  The rock bed in front of the hole will reject any shot short.  The rough around this hole used to be really patchy, but things have improved here big time in the last two years.



On Hole 12, the player must once again deal with a long, three-tiered green.  If the pin’s in front, go down at least one club, possibly two.  As you can see from this photo, I didn’t judge the distance too well.



After the okay par 3 13th comes my favorite hole on the course, the short par 4 14th.  Some might consider this a risk/reward hole, but I don’t see it that way.  After a fairway wood/long iron tee shot, the player must hit a precise aerial approach to a TINY green that can’t be wider than 10 yards.  This hole reminds me of something out of Golden Tee.  Birdies and Others are all possible on this hole.



View of 14 green from 12 green



15 is a long par 5 with a split fairway that runs to an elevated green.  16 is another fun par 3.  At the highest point of the golf course, the player is more exposed to the wind than any previous hole.  Like 6, it is semi-blind on the left side.  Short is okay.  Long shots will go all the way down the hill where an up-and-down is nearly impossible.



17 is another short par 4.  Unlike 14, this would be a risk/reward hole.  One can play anything from a mid-iron to a fairway wood on the tee shot and be left with a short iron/wedge approach.  Or, you can take out the big stick and go for broke.  Wind will usually dictate the players decision.



The round ends on a long par 4 that isn’t quite as memorable as the holes that precede it.

I haven’t played enough courses to give Buck Point a state ranking, but I will say it’s in my top 5 public courses in the Cincinnati area.  I like the fact that the course still operates out of a trailer, but a proper small clubhouse wouldn’t be a bad idea.  I think 7 needs to be re-routed somehow.  It’s too close to the water in too low of an area; therefore the condition of this hole is usually pretty poor due to ground moisture.  There’s enough land in between 5 and 1 that some re-routing could be done.

My visit came after all the rain that Indiana had 3 weeks ago, so every hole except for one had water in it.  I wonder if Brookville Lake has that much of an affect on the draining of the course.  I don’t know much about that kind of stuff.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2008, 08:32:48 PM by Criss Titschinger »

Chris_Clouser

Re: Buck Point, Liberty, IN
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2008, 06:59:34 AM »
Criss,

Thanks for the write-up.  I'm playing there this weekend.  I might pull this up and add some stuff after playing there if that is ok.

A few of those holes look really interesting from the photos. 

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Buck Point, Liberty, IN
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2008, 01:10:35 PM »
Take the power lines and the trees out on the left side of #2 and you have a cool hole there.

Overall a neat write up...thanks.
H.P.S.

Criss Titschinger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Buck Point, Liberty, IN
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2008, 08:35:06 PM »
Criss,

Thanks for the write-up.  I'm playing there this weekend.  I might pull this up and add some stuff after playing there if that is ok.

A few of those holes look really interesting from the photos. 

Chris, feel free to contribute to the thread.  I'm always curious to hear others' thoughts on this course.

Take the power lines and the trees out on the left side of #2 and you have a cool hole there.

The power lines are definitely in play at 2 and 11.  Local rule is to re-tee, but I'd be lying if I said they weren't a distraction.  I played from the Blue tees, which play 6300+ on the scorecard.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2008, 08:37:27 PM by Criss Titschinger »

Chris_Clouser

Re: Buck Point, Liberty, IN
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2008, 07:13:32 PM »
Got back and was quite impressed.  For those of you that think Sultans Run is in the middle of nowhere, you have no idea.   :o

Buck Point has the feeling of a rough gem that has been pulled out of the ground and just needs some finishing by a skilled hand.  I am going to try and get some more information from PB Dye about the initial design because I am wondering if he intended to leave so many of the bunkers grassed forever or if the plan was to eventually fill them with sand once the opportunity arose.  I hope they intended to leave them as grass.  The course is much better with that look.  I won't post any pictures as those already on the thread are better than I was able to take today.

The course has some very good greens without any of them being over the top.  The routing was very nice as well.  It made pretty good use of the lake as well with three holes running alongside it and three others featuring views of it beyond the hole.   

The par fives are all very good, with perhaps the 15th being my favorite, with both 4 and 5 scoring well in my book.  16 was the best par three I felt.  Three of the one-shot holes all had a deception factor involved by using mounding.  It was used the best on 16, but the 6th also was quite nice.  The par fours were where I just wasn't quite convinced.  2 and 3 were unique and had some nice qualities.  The green on three has a nice horseshoe grass depression protecting the front that I immediately thought of the 13th at Harbour Town when seeing.  11, 14 and 17 were also interesting.  I don't know if they stand the test of time after multiple plays, but I would have to go back and see if they interest me as much the second time around.  I have a feeling that 17 would not as it is much like many holes on other Dye and Liddy courses where they wrap a short par 4 around the hazard.  The best par four on the course is perhaps the hardest, 12.  I loved the uphill approach to the green benched into the hillside. 

As it is, Buck Point is a pretty good course.  But with some small touches to polish it off I could easily see it rising up into the top 15 or so in the state on my list.  Right now, as is, it is just out of it. 

The one negative obeservation I would make is the course needs to either have paved cart paths or not.  Having them intermixed throughout was not the best impression and if I would suggest either way, I would say have them paved.  Those that were unpaved were incredibly dangerous and sloppy if one was to be walking with all the water standing on them. 

Something else I noticed.  This was the first time that I can ever remember having the entire clubhouse crew be girls at any course I've ever been to.  They were much nicer than most of the assistant pros that often seemed bothered to help you with simple things like directions to the nearest interstate.  ::)
« Last Edit: July 05, 2008, 07:16:31 PM by Chris_Clouser »

Doug Ralston

Re: Buck Point, Liberty, IN
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2008, 09:50:47 PM »
Got back and was quite impressed.  For those of you that think Sultans Run is in the middle of nowhere, you have no idea.   :o

Buck Point has the feeling of a rough gem that has been pulled out of the ground and just needs some finishing by a skilled hand.  I am going to try and get some more information from PB Dye about the initial design because I am wondering if he intended to leave so many of the bunkers grassed forever or if the plan was to eventually fill them with sand once the opportunity arose.  I hope they intended to leave them as grass.  The course is much better with that look.  I won't post any pictures as those already on the thread are better than I was able to take today.

The course has some very good greens without any of them being over the top.  The routing was very nice as well.  It made pretty good use of the lake as well with three holes running alongside it and three others featuring views of it beyond the hole.   

The par fives are all very good, with perhaps the 15th being my favorite, with both 4 and 5 scoring well in my book.  16 was the best par three I felt.  Three of the one-shot holes all had a deception factor involved by using mounding.  It was used the best on 16, but the 6th also was quite nice.  The par fours were where I just wasn't quite convinced.  2 and 3 were unique and had some nice qualities.  The green on three has a nice horseshoe grass depression protecting the front that I immediately thought of the 13th at Harbour Town when seeing.  11, 14 and 17 were also interesting.  I don't know if they stand the test of time after multiple plays, but I would have to go back and see if they interest me as much the second time around.  I have a feeling that 17 would not as it is much like many holes on other Dye and Liddy courses where they wrap a short par 4 around the hazard.  The best par four on the course is perhaps the hardest, 12.  I loved the uphill approach to the green benched into the hillside. 

As it is, Buck Point is a pretty good course.  But with some small touches to polish it off I could easily see it rising up into the top 15 or so in the state on my list.  Right now, as is, it is just out of it. 

The one negative obeservation I would make is the course needs to either have paved cart paths or not.  Having them intermixed throughout was not the best impression and if I would suggest either way, I would say have them paved.  Those that were unpaved were incredibly dangerous and sloppy if one was to be walking with all the water standing on them. 

Something else I noticed.  This was the first time that I can ever remember having the entire clubhouse crew be girls at any course I've ever been to.  They were much nicer than most of the assistant pros that often seemed bothered to help you with simple things like directions to the nearest interstate.  ::)

Chris;

Glad to meet you, sorry it was so short, had folks waiting to tee.

Sorry you had to see Buck Point after such wet weather. The biggest weakness, IMHO, is drainage, especially on #7.

I like your choice of #12 as an interesting par-4. Did you note that if the pin where back right, you better not be on or just off front right. I have had that situation and know the 'you can't get there from here' .... The tiny bunker that slightly intrudes, plus the mounding around it, made me pitch it about 20 ft left of the pin and pray for a long putt to fall [God did not oblige  ???]. Lot to like there.

Like I said, a nice combination of 'country course' and a bit of Dye magic make for a really nice day, for which we paid just $30. And after having played there at least half a dozen times I still find something new about how to each new visit.

BTW, I am not sure how well anyone appreciates those grass bunkers LEFT of #10 till being in there. Seems shallow, but all landings are downhill and fast and hard to control. I love that plain looking par-5.

Thanks for looking in. Still should try Grand Oak sometime.

Doug

PS: Yes, I do believe P B Dye intended those bunkers be and remain grass. At least I hope so. They play better and look far more natural IMHO.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2008, 09:54:30 PM by Doug Ralston »

Chris_Clouser

Re: Buck Point, Liberty, IN
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2008, 09:47:06 AM »
It was nice to finally meet you as well.  I am intending on seeing Grand Oak and Belterra in a couple of weeks.

Richard Hetzel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Buck Point, Liberty, IN
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2008, 09:07:41 PM »
I think I will check out BP, it certainly looks worthy of a 45 min drive from Cincinnati. Thanks for the pics...
Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

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