California 1930

« **on:** July 01, 2008, 10:21:01 PM »

What were the best courses in California in 1930?

I wanted to look at the development of California golf architecture but I wasn't sure what date to choose. I chose 1930 because I thought that would be the highpoint but I'm willing to change it.

« **Reply #1 on:** July 02, 2008, 09:39:22 AM »

The obvious one would be Pebble.

Not sure if CPC, Pasa, and Riv existed yet!!

« **Reply #2 on:** July 02, 2008, 10:09:47 AM »

Cypress Point - 1928 MacKenzie/Hunter

Pebble Beach - 1919 Neville/Grant, 1921? Fowler, 1927? Mackenzie, 1929 Egan/Hunter/et al

Pasatiempo - 1929 Mackenzie

Riviera - 1926 Thomas/Bell

Los Angeles (North) - 1897?, 1920 Fowler, 1927 Thomas/Bell

Bel-Air - 1927 Thomas/Bell

Ojai Valley - 1923 Thomas/Bell

Meadow Club - 1926 Mackenzie

Valley Club of Montecito - 1929 Mackenzie/Hunter

Sonoma - 1925 ?

Stanford - 1930 Bell/Thomas

Monterey Peninsula - ? Raynor, ? Hunter/MacKenzie

San Francisco - 1918 Tillinghast

Olympic (Lake) - ?

Montebello - ? Behr

Lakeside - ? Behr

Rancho Santa Fe - 1928 Behr

San Diego - 1922 Watson?

« **Reply #3 on:** July 02, 2008, 10:38:05 AM »

Also from the Thomas/Bell stable

Ojai - 1923
Bel-Air - 1927
Palos Verdes - 1924
LACC North - 1897

It would seem that 1930 is a good year if you want to include the lion's share of the Thomas portfolio, and 1920 would be a good mark if you want to exclude that group.

« **Reply #4 on:** July 02, 2008, 10:47:15 AM »

Tom,

I believe Meadow Club in Fairfax was Mackenzie's first design in the USA, opening c. 1926.

TK

« **Reply #5 on:** July 02, 2008, 10:52:15 AM »

Valley Club of Montecito (Santa Barbara) 1929.

One of my personal faves, Sonoma Golf Club, 1925 I think.

« **Reply #6 on:** July 02, 2008, 11:07:37 AM »

Stanford (Bell/Thomas) 1930

« **Reply #7 on:** July 02, 2008, 11:21:42 AM »

When the 1929 U.S. Amateur was played at Pebble Beach, O.B. Keeler played Pebble, Cypress, MPCC, San Francisco, Olympic-Lake, Lakeside, LACC, Montebello, Ojay, and the grand opening of Pasatiempo. He might have also played Palos Verde and Riviera, I'll have to check on this later when I'm home with my books.

Chances are O.B. Keeler would play the best courses of a new area. One of Mackenzie's books lists what he thought were the best courses in California in that era.

There were also a number of private courses in the L.A. area, such as Chaplin's private course, that might be worth considering.

Cheers,
Dan King

Quote

I have always wanted to live where one could practice shots in one's pyjamas before breakfast, and at Santa Cruz the climate is so delightful that one can play golf every day in the year, where it's never to hot and never too cold, and if it should rain it usually does it at night.
--Dr. Alister MacKenzie

« **Reply #8 on:** July 02, 2008, 11:25:59 AM »

I don't know what year it opened but what about Rancho Santa Fe.

« **Reply #9 on:** July 02, 2008, 11:36:50 AM »

San Diego CC 1922
Rancho Santa Fe CC 1928

« **Reply #10 on:** July 02, 2008, 01:48:26 PM »

Some missing notables, in no order:

La Cumbre (GCTJ/Bell)
Red Hill (GCTJ solo, 9 holes)
La Jolla (Bell)
Royal Palms

(Bell)
Lake Norconian (Dunn)
Montecito CC (Behr)
Lake Merced (Mac renovation)
Cal Club (Mac renovation)
Harold Lloyd estate (Bell)
Olympic Ocean (Watson)
Griffith Park (GCTJ/Bell)
Fox Hills (GCTJ/Bell)
El Caballero (Bell)

« **Reply #11 on:** July 02, 2008, 02:23:53 PM »

Ryan and Tom MacWood,

I think the 1897 date for LACC refers to their old course at Wilshire and Western (I think.) There is a photo in the clubhouse of some of the founders inspecting the current site around 1910 or 1911 (if memory serves.) I don't have the sources handy, and others know it better, but I think the course was built, then redesigned by Fowler and rebuilt by Thomas (somewhat to Fowler's plans) then redesigned by Thomas and rebuilt by Thomas and Bell all before 1930.

Brookside (WP Bell 1928) hosted some early pro tournaments and was a good early (for Southern California) true municipal course.

Rancho Park (Fowler? 1921) (Remodeled by Bell (?) to soften course in the late 40's)

Wilshire (1919) should be on any list, especially because of its relatively early (for California) date.

Again, I think it is all laid out in Thomas book and elsewhere.

Jon

I too would consider El Cab, if it was indeed before 1930 (I don't remember.) The course is long gone, but photographs look very interesting.

I am not sure Bell was actually involved in the Griffith Park courses. My recollection was that they were designed by Thomas and built by the city.

There was an early course on Coronado Island that got some press. I think redone by Bell Sr. at some point but I am not sure.

Unfortunately, many courses bit the dust due to Depression, War, and expansion before they had a chance to establish their reputation.

« **Reply #12 on:** July 02, 2008, 02:34:19 PM »

So basically all the same courses that are still the best courses in California today...

« **Reply #13 on:** July 02, 2008, 02:50:40 PM »

Quote from: Matt_Cohn on July 02, 2008, 02:34:19 PM

So basically all the same courses that are still the best courses in California today...

Minus some modern notables, this is mostly true...but name any major city with great golden age golf where this wouldn't be true? Post-depression/Pre-Dye doesn't have strong representation on a national level, let alone within one state.

But the more interesting thing to me here is what courses were once some of the best that are no longer - whether due to changes, technology, wear/tear (Brookside, Ojai, Rancho, Griffith, Wilshire, Bel-Air to an extent)

« **Reply #14 on:** July 02, 2008, 02:53:53 PM »

Cypress Point - 1928 MacKenzie/Hunter

Pebble Beach - 1919 Neville/Grant, 1921? Fowler, 1927? Mackenzie, 1929 Egan/Hunter/et al

Pasatiempo - 1929 Mackenzie

Riviera - 1926 Thomas/Bell

Los Angeles (North) - 1911?, 1920 Fowler, 1927 Thomas/Bell

Bel-Air - 1927 Thomas/Bell

Ojai Valley - 1923 Thomas/Bell

Meadow Club - 1926 Mackenzie

Valley Club of Montecito - 1929 Mackenzie/Hunter

Sonoma - 1925 ?

Stanford - 1930 Bell/Thomas

Monterey Peninsula - ? Raynor, ? Hunter/MacKenzie

San Francisco - 1918 Tillinghast

Olympic (Lake) - ?

Olympic (Ocean) - ?

Montebello - ? Behr

Lakeside - ? Behr

Rancho Santa Fe - 1929 Behr

San Diego - 1922 Watson

La Cumbre - ? Bendelow, ? Thomas

Royal Palms - Bell

Lake Norconian - Dunn

Montecito - Behr

Lake Merced - ? Locke, 1927 Mackenzie

Califronia C of SF - 1922? Macan, Mackenzie

Harding Park - 1925 Watson

Griffith Park - ? Thomas

Fox Hills - ? Thomas/Bell

El Caballero - 1928 Bell

Brookside - ? Bell

Rancho - 1921 Fowler

Wilshire - ? Macbeth

« **Reply #15 on:** July 02, 2008, 03:07:20 PM »

RSFGC is 1929.

The course DM is thinking of that Bell did I believe was Bayside, but it actually was on Mission Bay. There was a course on Coronado called Coronado CC that was first done in 1901 but was redone by AWT in 1937. I would add Victoria GC in Riverside to the list (Behr). Watson did indeed do San Diego CC originally with a redo by Bell some years later. The 1922 date is correct on that one. I'll add a few others shortly....

« **Reply #16 on:** July 02, 2008, 03:09:14 PM »

Tom,

What about the Virginia CC? Tilly & Bell did a major renovation on it in 1938-39, but I know next to nothing about it's earlier history or quality of the course.

David, Tilly recommeded the foloowing work at Coronado on his visit ther in December of 1936. He only examined holes 1-11 and not the rest of the course (this was the choice of the club. Many times during his PGA Tour he only examined limited areas of courses thius enabling him to visit up to 6 clubs in a single day.). As a result, he suggested that they lengthen the 1st by creating a new green, redesign of the 7th and shortened the 2nd holes.

« **Reply #17 on:** July 02, 2008, 03:45:30 PM »

Definites:
Orinda - 1927 Watson
Claremont - 1929 Mackenzie
Del Paso - Fowler
Annandale CC - 1919 Watson/Bell

Maybe
Burlingame CC
Seqouyah - Fowler
Agua Caliente/Tijuana CC - 1929 Mackenzie

« **Reply #18 on:** July 02, 2008, 03:54:43 PM »

Redlands CC - 1927 - Mackenzie influence

« **Reply #19 on:** July 02, 2008, 04:00:29 PM »

What about the old old course on Santa Catalina island? Do we know if it was ever any good?

I thought Annandale was MacBeth?

Tom, Tommy probably has a more complete list. Geoff Shackelford as well. Plus, Lynn Shackelford probably was playing before 1930, wasn't he?

« **Reply #20 on:** July 02, 2008, 04:05:11 PM »

Also, how was Ross' Peninsula regarded?

« **Reply #21 on:** July 02, 2008, 04:09:30 PM »

David:
I had thought that it was Watson and Bell later redesigned it after serving as the club's caddiemaster.

« **Reply #22 on:** July 02, 2008, 04:21:01 PM »

An amazing list. Can anyone venture a guess as to what (if anything) separated/differentiated those courses that didn't survive into the modern era (in whole or in part) from those that did?

I'd guess that there was no such 'common denominator', but just thought I'd ask.

Peter

« **Reply #23 on:** July 02, 2008, 06:30:52 PM »

Quote from: DMoriarty on July 02, 2008, 04:00:29 PM

What about the old old course on Santa Catalina island? Do we know if it was ever any good?

I thought Annandale was MacBeth?

Tom, Tommy probably has a more complete list. Geoff Shackelford as well. Plus, Lynn Shackelford probably was playing before 1930, wasn't he?

Ed Tufts designed the old course on Catalina. There are a couple of photos in the LACC history and it looks rather uninteresting.

On your other post, you are correct as to the 1897 course. Then over to Pico & Western for a couple years, ultimately to today's property which featured a bland 18-hole Tufts design prior to the 1921 Fowler/Thomas effort(s). You are right on Griffith; too much copy & paste on my end.

Wilshire = 1919

Peninsula = a fairly weak Ross design which I think was called Beresford. I would put it light years behind the other courses mentioned thus far, save 3-4 holes which are quite good.

I neglected Union League Club of SF, which today is Green Hills CC (MacKenzie).

Tom, you should consider Red Hill CC (Thomas, 1921). Pictoral information is slim, but the written hole-by-hole description by GCTJ in Pacific Golf & Motor, combined with what's left lead me to believe it was damn good in 1930.

« **Reply #24 on:** July 02, 2008, 06:53:18 PM »

I thought Red Hills was a nine-hole course.

Cypress Point - 1928 MacKenzie/Hunter

Pebble Beach - 1919 Neville/Grant, 1921? Fowler, 1927? Mackenzie, 1929 Egan/Hunter/et al

Pasatiempo - 1929 Mackenzie

Riviera - 1926 Thomas/Bell

Los Angeles (North) - 1911 Bendelow?, 1920 Fowler, 1927 Thomas/Bell

Bel-Air - 1927 Thomas/Bell

Ojai Valley - 1924 Thomas/Bell

Meadow Club - 1927 Mackenzie

Valley Club of Montecito - 1929 Mackenzie/Hunter

Sonoma - 1927 Watson/Whiting

Stanford - 1930 Bell/Thomas

Monterey Peninsula - 1925 Raynor, 1926 Hunter/MacKenzie

San Francisco - 1918 Tillinghast

Olympic (Lake) - 1924 Watson

Olympic (Ocean) - 1924 Watson

Montebello - 1928 Behr

Lakeside - 1924 Behr

Rancho Santa Fe - 1929 Behr

San Diego - 1922 Watson

La Cumbre - 1916 Bendelow, 1925 Thomas/Bell

Royal Palms - 1925 Bell

Lake Elsinore - 1925 Dunn

Lake Norconian - 1928 Dunn

Lake Merced - ? Locke, 1929 Mackenzie

Califronia GC of SF - 1918 Macan, 1929 Mackenzie

Harding Park - 1925 Watson

Sharp Park - 1929 Mackenzie

Griffith Park - 1923 Thomas

Fox Hills - 1927 Thomas/Bell

Sunset Fields - 1927 Bell

El Caballero - 1928 Bell

Annandale - 1906 Watson/O'Neil, 1919 Watson, 1923 Bell/Croke

Pasadena - 1920 O'Neil/Croke

Brookside - 1930 Bell

Midwick - 1911 Macbeth, 1929 Bell

Rancho - 1921 Fowler

Wilshire - 1919 Macbeth

Orinda - 1926 Watson

Claremont - ? Watson, 1929 Mackenzie

Agua Caliente - 1929 Bell

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