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Chris_Clouser

Sultans Run - Jasper, Indiana
« on: June 30, 2008, 07:49:25 PM »
   Arguably the most scenic golf course in the state of Indiana resides in the small town of Jasper.  Sultan’s Run is a layout that originally opened in 1992 and after Tim Liddy’s work in 1996 has been on the tip of everyone’s tongue that has seen it since.  It is an incredible value and one of the top public courses in the state.  It uses Liddy’s style of design and adds in dramatic elevation changes to provide some eye-popping holes.
   But what else could be expected of this land.  The horse farm that originally ran over the site was the home of perhaps the greatest standardbred sire in history, Supreme Sultan.  As a reminder of all the great horses produced by the stallion, many of the holes are named in honor of the champion’s progeny.  Much like the standard of excellence produced by its namesake, the course has been recognized continually for its merit.
    As with his other offerings at The Trophy Club and Rock Hollow, Liddy put together a winning formula at Sultan’s Run.  The course features an unbelievable site along with some of Liddy’s best design work. 
   The use of water by Liddy is significant as half of the holes are impacted by it in some form or another.  Ponds are the primary tool used by Liddy on the par threes, but there are streams on a few holes.  An inventive use of a natural rock formation and a retention pond on the final hole create what Sultan’s Run calls the best of a round of signature holes.  Liddy also uses the water in coordination with some stark elevation changes to create some wonderful vistas showing off the gorgeous sweeping terrain of Southern Indiana.
   Liddy did a fine job in finding the best location for each hole, with only a couple feeling like they were just transition holes to piece together the routing.  His ability to use the terrain to provide uphill and downhill shots equally is a great quality.  It also helps to make Sultan’s Run more than just a pretty golf course.  When combined with the complex putting surfaces and devious bunker schemes that Liddy employs it makes for one of the best courses in the state.
   
Holes of note:

Hole 3 – 339 yards - The third runs along a ridge to the right with the hole running from the higher ground towards the lower left area.  The green is then benched into the ridge line and is a beautiful setting for a hole.  A view from behind shows just how much the player has come up hill by the time they finish the hole and Liddy shows another wonderful element of his design, camouflaging terrain movement.



Hole 6 – 493 yards - Also, a hallmark of Liddy courses are the thrilling par five holes.  Sultan’s Run is no different.  The sixth is an excellent risk-reward par five that runs along the edge of a ridge and around a large waste bunker.  The left side of the fairway just seems to skin the high part of the ridge so than anything less than perfect will run down to the lower elevations of the fairway.  The green is perched on the ridge at the end of the hole and rejects anything less than well-struck shots.  The amount of movement in the hole’s terrain is remarkable, as it rolls all the way up to the putting complex.



Hole 7 – 347 yards - The seventh is another excellent short par four that runs from a well-elevated tee to a rolling fairway below that then leads to a downhill approach into a plateau green.  It could be argued that this is one of Liddy’s trademark hole styles, but each time it shows up, there are some subtle differences.  On this version the terrain violently shifts from the tee to a rolling fairway that provides a small landing zone before another deep ravine occurs.  The choice is to either try and land on this narrow strip or just bomb it from the tee and take your chances on where you end up at the bottom of the ravine and play from there.  Either way, Liddy forces you to make a solid swing or you will be flirting with disaster.



Hole 8 – 325 yards – The next hole has no bunkers or water between the tee and green.  All that Liddy uses as a hazard is ground contour.  At just the point where one wants their drive to land, the fairway amazingly narrows and the left side becomes a series of hummocks and hollows covered in grass.  Finding a level lie for a short iron into the green is unlikely at best.  Again Liddy presents the challenge of execution from the tee to provide a reasonable shot into the green.



Back nine on next post


Chris_Clouser

Re: Sultans Run - Jasper, Indiana
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2008, 07:51:30 PM »
Hole 10 – 576 yards – A semi-blind tee shot over a bunker leads to a fairway that runs dramatically down hill.  The second is to a roller coaster fairway that presents the challenge of staying in the fairway for the short shot into the green, unless you tempt the deep bunker fronting the putting surface. 



Hole 12 – 209 yards - The par threes at Sultan’s have a similar theme amongst all of them and this might be the one flaw with the course.  All of the holes run downhill from well elevated tee locations.  All of them also feature a mandatory carry off the tee that might be difficult for some lesser players.  Though thrilling, a little more variety would have been nice and should have been possible on this site.  On their own individual merits, each hole is fine.  But there is a point where variety within the course wins out over individual splendor of each hole.  The twelfth is probably the one that stands out above the others with the large pond edging into the line of play and the large angled green.  The shot is from seven stories high and is a thrilling example of what this type of terrain can provide.  This is also the most photographed hole on the course after the final par four.



Hole 13 – 574 yards - The thirteenth is probably the best par five.  It runs uphill all the way, with a stream cutting the hole in half.  The bunkering on the hole is very reminiscent of something seen on a William Flynn or Donald Ross design from the 1920s.  The hole seems to work in a terrace like fashion up to the green complex after the player crosses the creek.  The skyline green at the top of the hill is difficult to hold with anything but a short iron or wedge.  So the longer approaches from the base of the rise will more than likely run through and create some difficult, if not impossible, attempts from the upper part of the green.



Hole 14 – 409 yards – The fourteenth features a drive over a crest and then ends with a difficult downhill approach into a well guarded green.  This hole might be the trickiest on the course as it features the lone blind tee shot and the lone blind hazard as a creek runs behind the green.  But the thing that everyone is afraid of are the deep pot bunkers on the right side of the hole.  This is undoubtedly a hole that local knowledge comes into play for many.



Hole 18 – 429 yards - The hole that everyone seemingly talks about is the final one.  The eighteenth has an elevated tee that requires a carry to the tilted fairway on the other side of the brush.  If one can carry the brush and bunkers, they will have a clear view into the green that is protected short by one lone bunker.  But beyond is a one of a kind waterfall that runs into lake to the right of the putting surface.  It is a truly beautiful hole to cap off a truly awe-inspiring round.




Sultans Run is in the midst of the top five public courses in the state in my opinion.  It is a course that no one should miss.  If one is in the area to see French Lick then Jasper is a short jaunt and well worth the trip.  French Lick may have a Donald Ross course, but it the best course in the area is about a half hour south.  Tying in a visit to Quail Crossing or Cambridge might make for a nice three or four day trip to the area.  I just hope the course receives its fair share of acclaim when the new Dye course opens in 2009 just up the road at French Lick.

Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sultans Run - Jasper, Indiana
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2008, 08:33:31 PM »
Tie this in with the Ross course at French Lick and one of the others that Chris mentions and we have our first Midwest Mashie.

Chris_Clouser

Re: Sultans Run - Jasper, Indiana
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2008, 09:48:08 PM »
Steve,

I was thinking the same thing when I saw the Mashie thread.  That's why I went ahead and put this up instead of waiting until later in the week.

John Kavanaugh

Re: Sultans Run - Jasper, Indiana
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2008, 09:52:09 PM »
Chris,

Very few people I know have any interest in playing Sultans Run even at bargain basement prices.  You seem to know Indiana pretty well...is this course a bit too smart for its rural location?  I just have never been able to figure this one out.  

Andy Troeger

Re: Sultans Run - Jasper, Indiana
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2008, 10:16:27 PM »
Chris,
Thanks for posting the photos. I tend to agree somewhat with your verdict on the par threes, but #12 as you mentioned and also #5 with a narrow angled green are fabulous holes. Also #12 and 16 really don't require forced carries, the water is mainly long and left, but the holes do have an air of similarity for sure, which is probably the biggest weakness of the course.

The variety of par fours is fabulous, from the short 7th and 8th to the finishing tough 17th and 18th stretch. I love the 10th sweeping down the hill, it gives #13 a run for its money for best par five on the course. You could make a valid argument for either course. There isn't a public course in the state I'd rather play.

It is in the middle of nowhere by Indiana standards.

Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sultans Run - Jasper, Indiana
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2008, 10:26:14 PM »
Chris:

Great pics.  I think Sultan's Run is great fun, a true bargain, and truly a hidden gem.  I didn't realize how many great public golf courses Indiana had until I moved away.

Bart

Criss Titschinger

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Re: Sultans Run - Jasper, Indiana
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2008, 10:37:52 PM »
Nice writeup.  I usually make it down to Santa Claus at least once a year to visit Holiday World amusement park.  Sounds like I need to include Sultan's Run with those plans.

Have you had a chance to play Christmas Lake?  I've always liked the idea of playing at CL after a day at HW, but it sounds like I need to make the drive up to Jasper and play SR.  Would you agree with that?

I didn't realize how many great public golf courses Indiana had until I moved away.

Indeed.  It's a shame gas has gotten so expensive because I would make plenty of road trips from Cincinnati to Indiana's great selection.  I need to find more lads to split the cost.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2008, 10:41:41 PM by Criss Titschinger »

Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sultans Run - Jasper, Indiana
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2008, 06:06:08 AM »
Criss - if they do Midwest Mashie there I'll split the cost of gas from Cincy with you - assuming the wife approves of said trip.

Chris_Clouser

Re: Sultans Run - Jasper, Indiana
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2008, 07:20:40 AM »
Andy,

I guess you're right about 12 and 15.  They don't have forced carries.  For some reason when I was writing that I had it in my mind they did.   ::)  It is probably the most scenic course in the state and the one I could see drawing others into the state, but it gets little or no recognition outside of the area.  I put it in my top 5 personally, but they are all almost equal in my mind.

John,

I have no idea why people don't want to go see it.  The only thing I can think of is if people are going to go down there they might be resigned to playing at French Lick and not go see something else.  I mean how often have we heard people on here say they would rather play a proven course by some old dead guy than take a chance on some new modern design.

Criss,

By all means, go play Sultans Run.  It is a much better course and is not expensive.  Especially if you have not played there before.  Christmas Lake is a nice course but I would have to think if it could fit into my top 50 in the state.  By the way, from Cincinnati there are a few excellent layouts on the Indiana side of the state line from what Doug Ralston keeps saying.  Places like Grand Oak, Buck Point and Belterra.  I'm hoping to see them soon.

Doug Ralston

Re: Sultans Run - Jasper, Indiana
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2008, 08:21:49 AM »
Chris and Criss;

Belterra is excellent, but it is a Casino course with casino price, $100+. This is in line with Fazio courses, but way out of line with the area. If you can play the new Dye coming to French Lick though, Belterra will be no problem.

Folks, if you really want a nice 3rd course to play with French Lick and Sultan's Run, go across to Falls Of Rough, Kentucky and play Lafayette GC. I'd rate in second five in admittedly top heavy Kentucky. Better, certainly, than the other suggestions here for the MM.

Glad Sultan's Run is getting some of the press it deserves. I think I might rate it '1st among equals' atop Indiana publics. Awefully fun to play.

Doug

Andy Troeger

Re: Sultans Run - Jasper, Indiana
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2008, 08:30:29 AM »
Chris,
I do tend to agree, while I have Sultan's Run at #1 of the Indiana publics, Rock Hollow, Warren, and The Fort all are within shouting distance (and over the years of playing them I've shuffled the order a few times).

#16 is the last par three, curious what you thought of the par four 15th around the pond. I wish there wasn't water on both sides (essentially that forest is lost ball land, I don't remember if there's a creek over there too or not). Its marked lateral I think. I like the second shot over the corner of the pond, the farther you hit the tee shot the less daunting the approach.

John Kavanaugh

Re: Sultans Run - Jasper, Indiana
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2008, 08:35:29 AM »
This is strange given that I have played so few public courses and find French Lick, The Warren, Purgatory, Otter Creek, Hulman Links, Cambridge and even Doak's Quail Crossing more interesting plays than Sultans Run.

Doug Ralston

Re: Sultans Run - Jasper, Indiana
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2008, 08:51:45 AM »
JK?

Otter Creek? Dogleg left, dogleg right, dogleg left, dogleg right *yawn*. It is an ok course, I suppose, but how DID it get such a rep? I actually like the Rees nine best. No comparison to Sultan's Run, you definitely lose me there.

I am intrigued by your high ranking of Hulman Links. It is a course we have considered, but then got some very negative feedback. What was good about it?

I did like Purgatory a lot, and would likely make it Top 10.

We all have different preferences, don't we?

John, have you ever played Lafayette. It is not far from Evansville. Worth the trip.

Doug

Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sultans Run - Jasper, Indiana
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2008, 09:01:34 AM »
JK?

Otter Creek? Dogleg left, dogleg right, dogleg left, dogleg right *yawn*. It is an ok course, I suppose, but how DID it get such a rep? I actually like the Rees nine best. No comparison to Sultan's Run, you definitely lose me there.

I am intrigued by your high ranking of Hulman Links. It is a course we have considered, but then got some very negative feedback. What was good about it?

I did like Purgatory a lot, and would likely make it Top 10.

We all have different preferences, don't we?

John, have you ever played Lafayette. It is not far from Evansville. Worth the trip.

Doug

Doug:

I am with you on Otter Creek and Hulman...but, I am not sure Sultan's Run is #1 either.  I find French Lick and Rock Hollow both more interesting...Even though I am an ND grad, haven't played the Warren...they built it a few yrs after I left.

Bart

John Kavanaugh

Re: Sultans Run - Jasper, Indiana
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2008, 09:02:26 AM »
Doug,

Don't play Hulman it is far too hard for you.  What is good about it is everything you would hate.  I like a public course that isn't afraid to tell the guy paying to get better or go someplace else.  I've had many a nine holes where I did not break 50 and went home with my tail between my legs.  The course has been softened with some excellent tree removal but the greens have shrunk to almost an equidistant difficulty.

Chris_Clouser

Re: Sultans Run - Jasper, Indiana
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2008, 09:49:44 AM »
Andy,

You're right.  I got the holes mixed up.  15 is one of those holes that I have seen on every Liddy course that I have played.  I just try to think of it in those terms.  If it is equal or better than the others of those holes then I take notice.  It was fine, but nothing above that.

John,

I'm not sure how you could see Quail Crossing as more interesting.  On the others that you listed that I have seen I can see how that might be the case depending on what you like about a course.  Cambridge might be the one on your list that I find the hardest to fathom.  Not your inclusion, but the course itself.  The entire course seemed so out of place.  It is trying to be a faux links and just reeked of overuse of the bulldozer.  Granted there were a few holes I liked, but there were so many times I was saying, "What in the world was Liddy thinking?"  But once again, I could see how that might appeal to some people.  Cambridge is one of those courses that I should really give a second look to see whether I was just missing something the one time I was there or if my first thoughts were correct. 

Doug,

The reputation for Otter Creek is easy to explain.  It was designed by RTJ and for almost 25 years it was the best public in the state.  There just wasn't anything that competed with it.  Then the boom hit in the late 80s and now there are several courses as good or better.  But because it was the top dog for so long, so many people feel it deserves to be there.  I think it is very good course, probably back end of my top 10.  The other thing is that Otter Creek is what many people think the ideal golf course should look like, a classic wooded parkland course.  It would be the type of place that my father would love to play at because those are the courses he likes the best. 

John Kavanaugh

Re: Sultans Run - Jasper, Indiana
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2008, 10:04:25 AM »
Chris,

There are at least five greens at Quail Crossings good enough to be at Pacific Dunes without skipping a beat.  The course takes me back to my great memories of the Bandon Resort.

I see the same thing with the relationship between Cambridge and Sultans.  I give Cambridge the nod on interesting because of the windy site.  I think Cambridge is more of a faux Straits than a Links.

Nice call on Otter...should I call you Luke?

Chris_Clouser

Re: Sultans Run - Jasper, Indiana
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2008, 11:32:21 AM »
John,

I get what you mean about faux Straits.  As I was going around, I kept seeing things that made me think of photos of Whistling Straits that I had seen over the years.  And it was quite windy out there when I visited.  Cold, wet and windy.  Maybe that and the fact that their new turf had not taken hold yet is why it left me tepid.

Good point on the greens at Quail.  14 and 15 in particular I thought were excellent.  A few others were of note as well.  But unfortunately, I think the greens far outshadow the rest of the course. 

I think the thing to remember is that that area is blessed with some good to great courses and that it should not be forgotten by anyone traveling in the area.

Tony_Chapman

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Re: Sultans Run - Jasper, Indiana
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2008, 02:29:42 PM »
Chris -- I just wanted to thank you for the recent threads on Indiana golf. It reminds me of some of the public offerings in Nebraska that no one knows about nationally, but would have a blast if they came threw and plopped down their $30.

Also, as a side note, the last time I heard Jasper and Indiana together was when Gene Hackman was talking about "their fancy uniforms" in the sectional final. Couldn't resist, Hoosier is my all-time favorite.

Joe Bausch

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Re: Sultans Run - Jasper, Indiana
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2008, 02:43:48 PM »
And if you are a Phillies baseball fan you also love Jasper:  it gave us Scott Rolen.   ;)
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Criss Titschinger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sultans Run - Jasper, Indiana
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2008, 12:35:50 PM »
I had the pleasure of playing Sultan's Run yesterday.  I agree with many of the comments made here.  Par 3s, while good individuals holes, are too similar to one another (elevated tee, forced carry).  The par 5s were outstanding, with 13 being my favorite.  15 has red stakes on the right and a great second shot.

18 is certainly an entertaining hole.  I'm still unsure how I feel about the waterfall (as natural as it may be), but the rest of the hole is a great summation of the previous 17 played before it.

Cannot beat the value.  I hope to play more of Indiana's great publics next year.

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