Why no love for Dick Wilson

[Mike_Cirba]

Bill,

I'm a HUGE fan of West Palm Beach muni...it's terrific!   Or at least it was when I last played there about five years ago.

I heard not too long ago that someone was going to improve it which scared the heck out of me.   

[Adam_Messix]

There were a couple of courses that have been misattributed, one being Shinnecock Hills, the other being Indian Creek with Red Lawrence.

As for Wilson's best work, my guess would be Bidermann in Delaware followed by Deepdale and Pine Tree.  I've played with some gcaers at Bidermann who were very impressed with his work there.  I don't know whether it's a lack of love for Wilson or just that his courses, like Trent Jones to some respect, have fallen out of favor.  It all works in a cycle and I'm sure Wilson's and Trent Jones' golf courses will be appreciated down the road.

[Jeff Shelman]

I don't know tons about Dick Wilson, but I very much enjoyed both NCR North and Coldstream when I played them.

I appreciated that there were very few tricks, just solid golf holes that make you hit shots if you want to score well.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Cirba,

Is it your position that the architect's plans are never deviated from by those in the field charged with construction of the golf course ?

Meadow Brook in Long Island is also a good golf course.

Patrick,

No, but when those plans match exactly what was built on the ground I think I can make a pretty fair assumption that the architect kept a tight rein,..unlike, say, Aronimink.   

Mike,

Evidently the architect didn't keep too tight a rein on Wilson as he made a good number of modifications.

Are you sure those plans that match exactly aren't "as builts" ?

Chris Cupit,

Many believe that Wilson's body of work is under appreciated.

Maybe his courses didn't get the appropriate recognition because of their limited number, especially compared to those of his peer, RTJ.

RTJ's work might have overshadowed Wilson's work because of RTJ's notoriety due to his association with Open preparation/alteration.

Deepdale is probably my least favorite of the Wilson courses I've played, but, perhaps the size of the property and the terrain accounts for that.

He designed a course with a number of very good holes that's not far from Princeton.  There are a few holes on the back nine that aren't to my liking, but, overall, the course is enjoyable.

I believe that his alteration of # 18 at Seminole was a substantive improvement

[TEPaul]

"He designed a course with a number of very good holes that's not far from Princeton.  There are a few holes on the back nine that aren't to my liking, but, overall, the course is enjoyable."


Patrick:

What is that, Bedens Brook?


"I believe that his alteration of # 18 at Seminole was a substantive improvement."


It was indeed a substantive improvement to move that green up where it is compared to where Ross had it and the tee as well.

[Joe Bausch]

Can anyone update me with how much of DW's design is left at Radnor Valley?  I read their course history web page and what is available at gapgolf.org.

It seems in the late 60's a highway project (The Blue Route as it is now known locally) required some hole(s) be given up and RV bought more land and the Gordon's redid the layout.  And I think more work has been done on it since.

Was RV just considered ordinary in its original state?  Or very good?  Or is little known about it?  I'd like to see an aerial of it from the late 50's to compare to the one from 1971 on the Penn Pilot web page as well as the current aerial from Google.

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

It is Beden's Brook.

Do you know if Wilson made suggestions for holes other than # 18 at Seminole ?

[Paul Jones]

Bump....

Dick Wilson is not even listed in Wikipedia 

It appears it is not just this website.

[Nigel Islam]

Bump....

Dick Wilson is not even listed in Wikipedia 

It appears it is not just this website.

Neither is Seth Raynor

[Joe Bausch]

I recently played Bedens Brook in New Jersey, a very enjoyable Dick Wilson layout I believe Forse and Nagle have been working on for a few years.  Here is the photo album:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/BedensBrook/

[Anthony_Nysse]

I recently played Bedens Brook in New Jersey, a very enjoyable Dick Wilson layout I believe Forse and Nagle have been working on for a few years.  Here is the photo album:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/BedensBrook/

I ask Ron on Friday during his weekly visit.

I think that DW doesn't get the love and respect that he should because he was designing courses in the same era at RTJ. Not only during the same time, but they had very similar styles in their designs-large bunkers, large greens, long tees and long golf courses. Both designed very aerial golf courses with pinched driving zones.
I feel as though DW really had for good green sights and how he fit bunkers into those greens. #13 and #14 here at Pine Tree are so cool in how they play and can be set up from day to day. Each hole can play 40 yds longer, just by where the pin is set and both greens are angled. RTJ had a way of building greens out of 3 circles and just kind of mended them together.

[Bill_McBride]

I recently played Bedens Brook in New Jersey, a very enjoyable Dick Wilson layout I believe Forse and Nagle have been working on for a few years.  Here is the photo album:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/BedensBrook/

 RTJ had a way of building greens out of 3 circles and just kind of mended them together.

Cog Hill is a great example of that RTJ style, at least when I saw it in the late '80's.   Most greens looked like clover leafs with bunkers cut deep between the lobes.  Maybe Dick Wilson checked out some RTJ greens!

[Jim Beard]

Sorry for my ignorance.  What did Wilson do to Bel Air?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Tony,

I would agree with the "no one remembers who finished second" mentality for Wilson vs. Jones.  Their styles were very similar but you wouldn't know it from one article I have in my files where they go back and forth endlessly about their differences.  RTJ won the PR battle overall.

I have a lot of respect for Wilson, after co-designing renovations at the two La Costa courses.  I concur he designed for the tournament aerial game, and was not really concerned about everyday play, save a stab at multiple tees.  Many holes have front center bunkers precluding almost any kind of roll in.  

I actually like his elevated greens, and as you say, (or Ron F) the bunkers fit well in those fill pads.  Moreover, the 10-15% upsweep to the greens really looks great, compared to the ground level greens we see more of in minimalism styles.

Plus, his puzzle piece bunkers are among the best.  We could tell which parts of La Costa he and his original shapers did. Later phases were designed by Joe Lee and built with in house crews, and those bunkers and greens were clearly lesser than the original 18.

There is a lot to like about that style, but it has clearly fallen out of favor these days.  But, I do wonder when the restoration movement will move full swing to courses built in the 50's, then 60's, then 70's and 80's.  Many of them certainly deserve preservation and updating rather than wholesale blow ups to what is currently trendy.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Tony,

I would agree with the "no one remembers who finished second" mentality for Wilson vs. Jones.  Their styles were very similar but you wouldn't know it from one article I have in my files where they go back and forth endlessly about their differences.  RTJ won the PR battle overall.

I have a lot of respect for Wilson, after co-designing renovations at the two La Costa courses.  I concur he designed for the tournament aerial game, and was not really concerned about everyday play, save a stab at multiple tees.  Many holes have front center bunkers precluding almost any kind of roll in.  

I actually like his elevated greens, and as you say, (or Ron F) the bunkers fit well in those fill pads.  Moreover, the 10-15% upsweep to the greens really looks great, compared to the ground level greens we see more of in minimalism styles.

Plus, his puzzle piece bunkers are among the best.  We could tell which parts of La Costa he and his original shapers did. Later phases were designed by Joe Lee and built with in house crews, and those bunkers and greens were clearly lesser than the original 18.

There is a lot to like about that style, but it has clearly fallen out of favor these days.  But, I do wonder when the restoration movement will move full swing to courses built in the 50's, then 60's, then 70's and 80's.  Many of them certainly deserve preservation and updating rather than wholesale blow ups to what is currently trendy.

Are you referring to the Sports Illustrated article?? They disrespectfully didn't seem to like each other in that article. 

[JNagle]

We have had the pleasure of restoring and planning for four of Wilson's courses and have studied many others.  Wilson (IMHO) was far better than Jones.  His design philosophies remained very strategic and encompassed many of the classic principals promoted by the ODG's from which he studied.  His biggest change was seeing that the game was becoming less of a ground game and more of an aerial attack.  He was said to stated "If you want to play a ground game, go bowling".  The designs of his greens were very much based on the Flynn alternating three high points and included irregular outlines (not so much clover leaf) which made for tucked and difficult to reach hole locations.  This in turn placed an emphasis on the angle of attack into the greens.  Pine Tree may be his greatest example of the ushering in of long hard to play golf courses.  Yet, the much shorter Hole In The Wall maintains many of the same principals on a smaller scale and is so much fun to play. 

He may not get the deserved attention because of his timing.  Truly coming into his own at a time when architecture was having a "changing of the guard".  RTJ hit it out of the park from a PR standpoint and garnered so much attention, yet at the same time did inferior work.  Working with the USGA from the early 50's on certainly did not hurt his reputation (at the time). 

Aerial view of HITW from the 60's



Plans for the 1st at HITW - Short par 4 but you can see the ideal line of play based upon the green alignment and bunkering.  What is not seen in the image is the internal contours of the green which reinforce the proper approach.




Restored #1




Here is the plan for the par 3 9th which is an example Wilson carried over from Flynn - the long diagonal on the line of play from the tee.  Nearly 80% of the green is protected by one fronting bunker.



The line of play if from the left of the image.


Wilson is one worthy of study.