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Glenn Spencer

Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #150 on: July 05, 2008, 06:33:06 AM »
I think I understand Matt's frustration. It goes without saying to correct me if I'm wrong on this Matt, but it seems that your jaded opinion of Wie's situation really has very little to do with the teenager herself, rather, the machine that is Team Wie, i.e., her agents, Nike and other sponsors, her parents, perhaps her coaches and to a lesser degree, ironic as it may seem, Michelle herself. As pointed out, Michelle assumed culpability in this when she signed on the dotted line to become a professional, but I'm guessing that the object of your scorn is not so much her but those mentioned earlier. And I can't say I blame you. From a personal view, I was skeptical when I saw her announce that she was teeing it up with the boys in Hawaii and chalked it up to youthful indiscretion and exuberance when she made proclamations about playing in the Masters someday. But I was also in awe when she played as well as she did at the Sony, particularly when coupled with the fact that she could not even drive herself to the course for practice. But being completely blown away by an event(s) in no way made me declare or even think that she was the Messiah or better than Mickey Wright or Annika. While I can't speak for others, I think most felt and feel the same.

I feel your pain, Matt.

David,

MW lost in the quarters to the eventual champion at the Public Links. Why should she apologize for thinking that she could win that tournament?  Overton is leading this week and he lost in the 2nd round. Anthony Kim lost in the semis. If you were only "blown away" by one of Michelle's performances, you weren't paying that close attention.

Glenn Spencer

Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #151 on: July 05, 2008, 04:15:55 PM »
From a personal view, I was skeptical when I saw her announce that she was teeing it up with the boys in Hawaii and chalked it up to youthful indiscretion and exuberance when she made proclamations about playing in the Masters someday.


David,

I was up a little early. I will grant you that, all I was saying was that in my opinion, the quarters is more than youthful indiscretion and exuberance. I was there, I am not a dummy on the golf course and I was starting to start to believe. I thought Kim would be the problem, but he got beat. Ogden was insane that day.

Matt_Ward

Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #152 on: July 07, 2008, 10:05:47 AM »
David C:

My issue deals with a few of the people on this site who BIT on the Michelle Wie situation hook, line and sinker BEFORE she actually piled up wins to show she could really seal the deal. People got way ahead of themselves and no doubt the uncanny nature of Michelle's swing is something to behold in person.

However ...

Michelle Wie has a very basic 101 level putting and short game expertise. She needs to develop a touch / feel that can work at the highest levels of women's golf - forget the men's for now.

Michelle became the "show" and was managed / directed by her parents and all the assorted characters connected to Team Wie.

Unfortunately, those who said otherwise about Michelle and the nature of this would turn out were accused of being harsh on Michelle and all such other drivel. The sad fact is those who saw it the way I do tried to provide some sort of reasonable perspective before the "hype bus" trekked further down the road.

David, the first time situation in Hawaii was something to triumph. I did. However, please open your eyes to the reality tied to when Michelle and Team Wie cleverly WDed from the LPGA event to avoid DQing the rest of the LPGA season. Very smartly played out and a sad day for LPGA brass to countenance such a situation. You then have the numerous ventures into men's golf that was a carnival / circus show tied to one thing ...

MAKE THE BIG BUCKEROOS !!!

Now, we have people falling back on the injury excuse when it's clear that injuries didn't stop Michelle from jumping ship at one event and then being on the practice tee at the LPGA Championship the next week. How does one explain that? Keep in mind, this gal has been given ENTRY to events simply on the promise of what might be. How bout she do what she did at the Women's Open -- qualify for a spot to gain entry. How bout she demonstrate the capacity to finish off an event with stellar play and show she can actually win.

David, I have huge respect for Michelle and what she can offer golf.

But, the hype needs to be placed in some sort of reality.

You define my view as "cynical." I beg to differ. I, along with the others who have said so from the get-go, believe that perspective is needed -- not just the gushing / fall over each other adulations that have had no boundary to reality.

David, final point, Michelle is now an adult and she should be the one that controls her eventual destiny. I'd like her to be all that she can be -- whether it's pro golf or otherwise. Michelle needs to demonstrate her own individual game plan and stop permitting others to manage and push her on a path that she may not really want for herself.

Nothing more ... nothing less.

John C:

Hold the phone amigo.

You spin the debate a bit too far cocnerning what I actually said.

I'm open to ANY comments - provided the same is done in return.

The pro-Wie forces were granting her sainthood LONG BEFORE she really had the WINS to back up all the claims. Much of that is not to be blamed on Michelle herself -- but Team Wie and those here on this site who were tripping overthemselves as they drooled and gushed about anything Michelle did.

I have a huge amount of respect for Michelle but when perspective and verifiable information has said otherwise concerning where Michelle is NOW in her career -- the pro-Wie side balks in terms of issuing a mea culpa on all the trumpeting of her as the next Tiger Woods from the female side and then decides to turn things around by focusing itself on the people who provided such balanced opinions from the get go.

John, being the gracious person you are I can forgive you for not seeing the topic so clearly. ;D

Let's do the golf dimension when time / opportunity permits -- even in my favorite of golf states ... Florida !

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #153 on: July 18, 2008, 07:11:13 PM »
Hmmm....-12 through second round...one shot back.....shot a 67 yesterday and a 65 today...least Wie Forget, the girl could and can play the game...
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #154 on: July 18, 2008, 07:20:28 PM »
Hmmm....-12 through second round...one shot back.....shot a 67 yesterday and a 65 today...least Wie Forget, the girl could and can play the game...

Dear Craig Sweet,

   I've been telling you and others in thread after thread that Michelle Wie is overrated.

Sincerely,
Matt Ward
===========
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #155 on: July 18, 2008, 07:41:48 PM »
She's playing well (so far), but I still think she's overrated.  The amount of attention she has received is proportional to a player who would have won about half a dozen LPGA tournaments by now.  I'll reassess a little if she wins this weekend.  But until then, she is still a bit overrated.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #156 on: July 18, 2008, 11:44:50 PM »
Tim, back a few pages in this thread I posted her record from about age 10 through age 16....check it out, read her accomplishments at a very young age, and you will understand the hype...she WAS WINNING everything against boys and girls...and then men and women....how well should she have done against the best women professionals at age 12, 13, 14, 15????  Check her record, she did quite well for someone not yet 17 years old...
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #157 on: July 19, 2008, 12:07:46 AM »
Tim, back a few pages in this thread I posted her record from about age 10 through age 16....check it out, read her accomplishments at a very young age, and you will understand the hype...she WAS WINNING everything against boys and girls...and then men and women....how well should she have done against the best women professionals at age 12, 13, 14, 15????  Check her record, she did quite well for someone not yet 17 years old...

Not only that, but she's still younger than Creamer was when she set the all-time record for youngest winner of a multi-round LPGA event.

Creamer was 18 years, 9 months and 17 days when she won her first event.

Wie won't reach that age until August 28, 2008.

Ken
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #158 on: July 19, 2008, 12:19:40 AM »
She's playing well (so far), but I still think she's overrated. 

In order to be overrated, you must first be rated.  While she was once #2 or #3 in the world, I don't think Michelle is rated very high right now.  Hard to call her overrated.

Glenn Spencer

Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #159 on: July 19, 2008, 01:19:40 AM »
She's playing well (so far), but I still think she's overrated.  The amount of attention she has received is proportional to a player who would have won about half a dozen LPGA tournaments by now.  I'll reassess a little if she wins this weekend.  But until then, she is still a bit overrated.

My favorite attitude in sports. I think she is overrated until she wins.

Did Smith become a great coach in the spring of 82?
Jordan a great player in the summer of 91?
Tiger in 97? Is that when he became good or was he pretty decent in 96?

Michelle Wie has skills that the other girls don't have. Annika Sorenstam has one of the best records and she chose Colonial at the height of her powers. Wie was still closer to making the cut at the Sony.

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #160 on: July 19, 2008, 11:04:12 AM »
This might jinx her by posting this, but she birdied the first two holes and is now in the lead thru 3 holes in the third round...
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Jim Nugent

Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #161 on: July 19, 2008, 04:12:37 PM »
Can anyone tell me what happened today?  The LPGA.com site says she is one behind the leader after three.  But her names does not appear anywhere on that site's leaderboard. 

Joe Perches

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #162 on: July 19, 2008, 04:15:00 PM »
DQ'd for not signing her scorecard on Friday.

Brent Hutto

Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #163 on: July 19, 2008, 04:33:50 PM »
DQ'd for not signing her scorecard on Friday.

Good grief.

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #164 on: July 19, 2008, 04:36:08 PM »
DQ'd for not signing her scorecard on Friday.

Good grief.

unfreakingbelievable
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Jim Nugent

Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #165 on: July 19, 2008, 04:42:54 PM »
Bizarre in two ways.  One, that she didn't sign Friday.  Two, that she was allowed to play Saturday, shoot 67, apparently hold 2nd place, and then learn she was DQ'd for yesterday's mistake. 

Hopefully Michelle will learn the lessons and bounce back.  Though this time it sounds like the LPGA screwed up just as much as she did. 


Ryan Farrow

Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #166 on: July 19, 2008, 04:45:06 PM »
WIE FORGETs to sign the scorecard. hmmmm... not making excuses for her, but has there ever been a spirit of the rule in any rules of golf? And she can't just sign that scorecard say.....a day later, and keep playing? I have never signed a scorecard in my entire life, does that mean I never played a real round of golf? Me thinks the rule book should get a good common sense run-through, no harm, no advantage, no foul approach to the rules.

Paul Carey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #167 on: July 19, 2008, 04:55:05 PM »
Wie DQ'd from State Farm over scorecard flap

46 minutes ago

SPRINGFIELD, Ill. (AP) — Michelle Wie finished the third round of the State Farm Classic alone in second on Saturday — that is, if she hadn't already been disqualified.

Wie failed to sign her scorecard after Friday's second round. She showed up Saturday and shot 5-under 67 to finish alone in second at 17 under, one stroke back of Yani Tseng. That's when Wie learned of the LPGA's ruling.

The 18-year-old Wie, who appeared to have been crying, told reporters she made a mistake.

"I don't know how it happened," she said.

Wie, who is playing a part-time schedule while attending Stanford, was having by far her best tournament of the year. She opened with a 5-under 67 and followed with rounds of 65 and 67 — though the last two won't count.

Brent Hutto

Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #168 on: July 19, 2008, 04:55:46 PM »
Ryan,

I've signed my scorecard whenever I've played in an open medal comp in the UK or in my club championship or similar here in the US. I can't imagine any way in the which the Rules are unfair concerning signing for your score. It just isn't that hard to remember, especially for a so-called professional accompanied by a pro caddie. You keep score, you double check it, you sign it and you hand it to the guy with the armband.

Yes, the Tour screwed up in not having someone there in the trailer to make sure their players obey the proper procedure. But there's no excuse under heaven for forgetting to do some a simple and basic thing. She's done that 100's of time in her life and it is critically important. What's to forget?

Good grief.

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #169 on: July 19, 2008, 05:14:30 PM »
Holey Cow!

Although this is one of the 7 deadlies, this really reflects poorly on the LPGA Rules Officials. I have never been involved in any tournament on a professional or college level where rules officials did not check the signatures on the card before the players left the area.

A typical tournament has at least 2 officials seated at the table, and they make check marks across the signatures as soon as the card is handed over and then they add up the scores and confirm the score with the player, it all takes about 20 seconds with professional players who shoot low scores because you can count up or down off of four
"We finally beat Medicare. "

tonyt

Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #170 on: July 19, 2008, 05:24:08 PM »
WIE FORGETs to sign the scorecard. hmmmm... not making excuses for her, but has there ever been a spirit of the rule in any rules of golf? And she can't just sign that scorecard say.....a day later, and keep playing? I have never signed a scorecard in my entire life, does that mean I never played a real round of golf? Me thinks the rule book should get a good common sense run-through, no harm, no advantage, no foul approach to the rules.
I've never seen a situation where it is an impost upon a player to sign a scorecard, 'nor one where in competition, a player might actually not sign a scorecard.

I think it is easier to leave your clubs at home and find the trunk empty when you get there, forget to change shoes or forget your tee time and roll up an hour late than it is in pro competition to not sign your scorecard.

Ryan Farrow

Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #171 on: July 19, 2008, 05:55:05 PM »
Someone tell me what kind of advantage she gained by not signing a scorecard.


Rules should be in place and enforced to prevent a player from gaining an un-fair advantage over their competitor. You all can make fun of her for it all you want, but at the end of the day, she was in 2nd place and now can not finish the tournament because of a rule that doesn't even regulate how someone plays. I think it would be great for the game of golf if the LPGA would let her sign her scorecard and play in the final round, which could have been done this morning, if the Tour knew she didn't sign in the first place.

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #172 on: July 19, 2008, 06:00:52 PM »
I think there is a place for procedural rules in competitive golf where a lot of money is at stake. She knew the rule, she failed to comply with the rule, unintentionally I'm sure.

I hope that doesn't come across as making fun of MW.

Joe

" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Will MacEwen

Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #173 on: July 19, 2008, 06:03:54 PM »
I can't believe she didn't sign it, and I can't believe the LPGA is this half assed.

Dean Stokes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Wie Forget ...
« Reply #174 on: July 19, 2008, 06:06:31 PM »
Ryan, I'm trying to feel pity for her but I'm struggling. It's one of the first things you learn in golf - check your scorecard and sign it. Simple.

I know it didn't affect her score but it is a rule and with her tournament experience she should know better, especially since she was in contention.

I used to be more nervous signing the damn card to ensure I didn't do it wrong than I was actually playing!
Living The Dream in The Palm Beaches....golfing, yoga-ing, horsing around and working damn it!!!!!!!

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