[Sean_A]

Kinda sad to see many folks driven by bitterness and envy having to rip a young girl. One develops a new appreciation for the OSU Football coach's rant at the media.

I think she's gonna be fine, she'll just take longer than it seemed. And she's got more to fall back on then most of the Monday morning quaterbacks on this site.

This crowd would've written off Hogan in his twenties.

George

Is this how you interpret what folks are saying?  As one of those folks I can say I wish Wie all happiness.  This wishing her well has nothing to do with her golf.  The bottom line is folks proclaimed her as the next coming of Jesus at a very young age - imo quite without reason as well.  Finishing top 5 in a few majors doesn't make her a world beater - winning tournaments does.  My take was to wait and see before making any grandiose claims - and I am still waiting as she is still a kid.  If this is bitterness then I must be about the most happy go lucky guy about town.   

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

Golf is a very fickle game.

Not near as fickle as what happens to a young girl from 13 to 18. ... I see far more kids fail at golf because of their dads laziness or selfishness than from over exposure to the game. 

Sage words.
What amazes me is how Wie and her parents are condemned (by many), and John Daly is glorified (by many)
Who brought more worthwhile people to the game ? Wie and her effect on young girls interest, or Daly and his effect on...

It amazes me that someone could refer to a group of people as worthwhile and therefore deeming another group of people to not to be worthwhile.

I actually merely suggested Wie brings MORE worthwhile people to the game, not that Daly's weren't worthwhile, but if I'm found guilty.....
people do it (deem groups or individuals worthwhile) every day Glenn.
That's why there are good jobs and bad jobs (and yes no jobs).
That's why you wear a coat and tie to an interview because although first impressions can be deceiving and wrong, you often never get a second chance to make a first impression.

Tom Kite-Hall of fame -based on consistently playing the game at a high level for 30+ years.
based on contributions to the game and setting a great example of hard work ,persistence, integrity.
and if you don't think he's a closer-you don't know him.
Most of those top tens weren't from choking, but rather from never giving up and hanging in--even when a top 50 finish was more likely.


John Daly-talented human being-big heart (from what I hear)
not Hall of Fame

Who would you like your son to emulate?
and unless your son is world class talented, Daly's not an option

[Glenn Spencer]

Golf is a very fickle game.

Not near as fickle as what happens to a young girl from 13 to 18. ... I see far more kids fail at golf because of their dads laziness or selfishness than from over exposure to the game. 

Sage words.
What amazes me is how Wie and her parents are condemned (by many), and John Daly is glorified (by many)
Who brought more worthwhile people to the game ? Wie and her effect on young girls interest, or Daly and his effect on...

It amazes me that someone could refer to a group of people as worthwhile and therefore deeming another group of people to not to be worthwhile.

I actually merely suggested Wie brings MORE worthwhile people to the game, not that Daly's weren't worthwhile, but if I'm found guilty.....
people do it (deem groups or individuals worthwhile) every day Glenn.
That's why there are good jobs and bad jobs (and yes no jobs).
That's why you wear a coat and tie to an interview because although first impressions can be deceiving and wrong, you often never get a second chance to make a first impression.

Tom Kite-Hall of fame -based on consistently playing the game at a high level for 30+ years.
based on contributions to the game and setting a great example of hard work ,persistence, integrity.
and if you don't think he's a closer-you don't know him.
Most of those top tens weren't from choking, but rather from never giving up and hanging in--even when a top 50 finish was more likely.


John Daly-talented human being-big heart (from what I hear)
not Hall of Fame

Who would you like your son to emulate?
and unless your son is world class talented, Daly's not an option

You need to show some final round stats on Kite in majors, otherwise, that is just the way you remember it. I will give you the first one, 78 at Oak Hill. I never said I knew him, but he is no closer and 1 for 29 says it all.

I wouldn't want my son to emulate anyone, but I would rather he have Daly's insides on the golf course. Daly had two REAL chances to win a major, he won them both. Why would I want anything to do with Kite, if I can have that?

[Brent Hutto]

Not one person in one hundred could learn to hit the ball as hard a John Daly and not one in ten could learn to have his touch with a putter or wedge in his hand. He was born with as much innate talent as Tiger Woods.

Almost any person could learn to work at the game and to grind on the course as well as Tom Kite. Most of Kite's success comes from the application of things it pays to try and emulate, as opposed to things you have to make up for if you're not granted them at birth.

Of course if you combine John Daly level talent with Tom Kite level dedication, cleverness, discipline and mental toughness you get Tiger Woods. Pretty unbeatable combination, that.

[John Kavanaugh]

Of course if you combine John Daly level talent with Tom Kite level dedication, cleverness, discipline and mental toughness you get Tiger Woods. Pretty unbeatable combination, that.

Hmmm...I've heard racists same the same thing about Tiger, just differently.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Matt Ward,
If you really '".....wish her well"  do that. Why do you feel the feel the need to crap on other people for their exuberant hopes for this girl?

Does it make you feel superior, or sooooooooooo smmmmmart?

Sheesh.

[Brent Hutto]

So which part of my statement is "racist" to your mind, the part about being as talented as John Daly or being as smart and tough as Tom Kite? Am I not supposed to compare him to a couple of white guys because his dad was black?

[John Kavanaugh]

So which part of my statement is "racist" to your mind, the part about being as talented as John Daly or being as smart and tough as Tom Kite? Am I not supposed to compare him to a couple of white guys because his dad was black?

No...You are not supposed to say he is half athletic and half smart when it fits so neatly into stereotypes.  He isn't half anything.

[jeffwarne]

Golf is a very fickle game.

Not near as fickle as what happens to a young girl from 13 to 18. ... I see far more kids fail at golf because of their dads laziness or selfishness than from over exposure to the game. 

Sage words.
What amazes me is how Wie and her parents are condemned (by many), and John Daly is glorified (by many)
Who brought more worthwhile people to the game ? Wie and her effect on young girls interest, or Daly and his effect on...

It amazes me that someone could refer to a group of people as worthwhile and therefore deeming another group of people to not to be worthwhile.

I actually merely suggested Wie brings MORE worthwhile people to the game, not that Daly's weren't worthwhile, but if I'm found guilty.....
people do it (deem groups or individuals worthwhile) every day Glenn.
That's why there are good jobs and bad jobs (and yes no jobs).
That's why you wear a coat and tie to an interview because although first impressions can be deceiving and wrong, you often never get a second chance to make a first impression.

Tom Kite-Hall of fame -based on consistently playing the game at a high level for 30+ years.
based on contributions to the game and setting a great example of hard work ,persistence, integrity.
and if you don't think he's a closer-you don't know him.
Most of those top tens weren't from choking, but rather from never giving up and hanging in--even when a top 50 finish was more likely.


John Daly-talented human being-big heart (from what I hear)
not Hall of Fame

Who would you like your son to emulate?
and unless your son is world class talented, Daly's not an option

You need to show some final round stats on Kite in majors, otherwise, that is just the way you remember it. I will give you the first one, 78 at Oak Hill. I never said I knew him, but he is no closer and 1 for 29 says it all.

I wouldn't want my son to emulate anyone, but I would rather he have Daly's insides on the golf course. Daly had two REAL chances to win a major, he won them both. Why would I want anything to do with Kite, if I can have that?

I'm sure Kite's 28 other top tens trumps Daly's one other major-no?

Daly quit many times, Wd, 85's, etc.-those aren't quality insides-the message you send is only try when you are in or near the lead.
Fortunately the 1980 hockey team (and other comeback stories) didn't share that attitude.
You seem to have the same contempt for players who can't close(you think-I happen to disagree in Kite's case)  that I do for quitters.

Not much of a message for today's youth-
If you're very talented and you get a chance to win-go for it-otherwise quit.

[Brent Hutto]

Nothing "half" about it. I think Tiger is 100% athletic and 100% smart.

I think 100%+100%=200%.

The only thing "half" about him is he's probably "half" way to the total number of Majors he'll win.

[Glenn Spencer]

Golf is a very fickle game.

Not near as fickle as what happens to a young girl from 13 to 18. ... I see far more kids fail at golf because of their dads laziness or selfishness than from over exposure to the game. 

Sage words.
What amazes me is how Wie and her parents are condemned (by many), and John Daly is glorified (by many)
Who brought more worthwhile people to the game ? Wie and her effect on young girls interest, or Daly and his effect on...

It amazes me that someone could refer to a group of people as worthwhile and therefore deeming another group of people to not to be worthwhile.

I actually merely suggested Wie brings MORE worthwhile people to the game, not that Daly's weren't worthwhile, but if I'm found guilty.....
people do it (deem groups or individuals worthwhile) every day Glenn.
That's why there are good jobs and bad jobs (and yes no jobs).
That's why you wear a coat and tie to an interview because although first impressions can be deceiving and wrong, you often never get a second chance to make a first impression.

Tom Kite-Hall of fame -based on consistently playing the game at a high level for 30+ years.
based on contributions to the game and setting a great example of hard work ,persistence, integrity.
and if you don't think he's a closer-you don't know him.
Most of those top tens weren't from choking, but rather from never giving up and hanging in--even when a top 50 finish was more likely.


John Daly-talented human being-big heart (from what I hear)
not Hall of Fame

Who would you like your son to emulate?
and unless your son is world class talented, Daly's not an option

You need to show some final round stats on Kite in majors, otherwise, that is just the way you remember it. I will give you the first one, 78 at Oak Hill. I never said I knew him, but he is no closer and 1 for 29 says it all.

I wouldn't want my son to emulate anyone, but I would rather he have Daly's insides on the golf course. Daly had two REAL chances to win a major, he won them both. Why would I want anything to do with Kite, if I can have that?

I'm sure Kite's 28 other top tens trumps Daly's one other major-no?

Daly quit many times, Wd, 85's, etc.-those aren't quality insides-the message you send is only try when you are in or near the lead.
Fortunately the 1980 hockey team (and other comeback stories) didn't share that attitude.
You seem to have the same contempt for players who can't close(you think-I happen to disagree in Kite's case)  that I do for quitters.

Not much of a message for today's youth-
If you're very talented and you get a chance to win-go for it-otherwise quit.

What comeback did our 1980 hockey team make?

So, you want to honor the guy that tried really hard, but 97% of the time couldn't find it? We are talking about golf, not working hard. Trump them how? HOF's should be for people that win or make a difference, Kite did neither compared to Daly.

[Glenn Spencer]

Tim Herron before the final round of Honda when he won. "Some people know how to win golf tournaments and some don't."  Well, some people know how to win Majors and some don't. Kite didn't. How can you be a Hall of Famer if you don't know how to win the biggest tournaments and you add nothing extraordinary outside the lines? It doesn't make any sense to me. You can leave them both out or in, but Kite can't be in and Daly out.

[Matt_Ward]

The botton line with Wie is the nature by which her parents and others that made / make up Team Wie overplayed their hand with this fine young talent.

I wish Michelle well but frankly she has no short game and when the bright lights are on can't make a short putt consistently to handle what the other top gals do routinely.

She needs Dave Pelz or someone of that type because while her swing is a joy to watch -- the closer she advances to the green the mystique she gives at the tee simply vanishes when she walks onto the green.

[rjsimper]

Tim Herron before the final round of Honda when he won. "Some people know how to win golf tournaments and some don't."  Well, some people know how to win Majors and some don't. Kite didn't. How can you be a Hall of Famer if you don't know how to win the biggest tournaments and you add nothing extraordinary outside the lines? It doesn't make any sense to me. You can leave them both out or in, but Kite can't be in and Daly out.

Can we take the Daly discussion back to the other thread please?

[Glenn Spencer]

The botton line with Wie is the nature by which her parents and others that made / make up Team Wie overplayed their hand with this fine young talent.

I wish Michelle well but frankly she has no short game and when the bright lights are on can't make a short putt consistently to handle what the other top gals do routinely.

She needs Dave Pelz or someone of that type because while her swing is a joy to watch -- the closer she advances to the green the mystique she gives at the tee simply vanishes when she walks onto the green.

Michelle is my girl out there. I think her head has enough to think about, no need to bring in Pelz and add more.

[Matt_Ward]

Glenn:

Get real OK !

I saw her at Canoe Brook during the US Open sectional a few years back and she might have made it save for a balky putter and frankly no real skills in handling various chips and pitches.

She may not need Pelz specifically -- but she does need someone to handle her short game and putting.

[Phil Benedict]

He was born with as much innate talent as Tiger Woods.

I've heard this from others but am not buying it, even if we limit the discussion to physical talent.  Daly's natural way of swinging is so long that it's hard for me to see him ever being consistent or have the kind of control Woods has with his irons, even with a better work ethic.

[Glenn Spencer]

Glenn:

Get real OK !

I saw her at Canoe Brook during the US Open sectional a few years back and she might have made it save for a balky putter and frankly no real skills in handling various chips and pitches.

She may not need Pelz specifically -- but she does need someone to handle her short game and putting.

Matt,

You should think about reading properly before telling people to get real. I was saying as you said that she doesn't need Pelz. I was "digging" at Pelz, not saying anything about her short game. 

You saw her at Canoe Brook? So what? I saw her at the Public Links and I saw some short genius out of her.

[Glenn Spencer]

Glenn:

Get real OK !

I saw her at Canoe Brook during the US Open sectional a few years back and she might have made it save for a balky putter and frankly no real skills in handling various chips and pitches.

She may not need Pelz specifically -- but she does need someone to handle her short game and putting.

Seriously, how does this response come from what I wrote? How?

[Dave_Miller]

Michelle Wie will still win 10 ladies majors and be in the Hall of Fame.

Just like she got hyped too fast, she's being written off too fast.

Dave:
Don't you think she has to somehow learn to win first.  The best advice she got was from Tiger and it was ignored. He said she needed to stay in the amateur ranks and learn to win.  This did not happen.  Is there a way for her to accomplish this now?  I just don't know.
Best
Dave

[rjsimper]

How many golfers learned to win before the age of 18?

Not many.

I think 18 is a perfectly fine age to start learning to win..

When you are playing against 18 year olds, sure....but when you are playing against 40 year olds?

[Garland Bayley]

How many golfers learned to win before the age of 18?

Not many.

I think 18 is a perfectly fine age to start learning to win..

When you are playing against 18 year olds, sure....but when you are playing against 40 year olds?

Must we remind you that Yani Tseng and Morgan Pressel started learning to win against 40 year olds at age 18?
 

[Garland Bayley]

I get a kick out of all the Wie supporters who disappeared better & faster than any Howard Hughes could.

Saw she shot 81 today in the 1st round of the Women's Open.

Julie Inkster shot the same score today.

Let's spend 3 pages belittling her, too.

And don't forget to belittle her parents too!

[Dean Stokes]

I get a kick out of all the Wie supporters who disappeared better & faster than any Howard Hughes could.

Saw she shot 81 today in the 1st round of the Women's Open.

Julie Inkster shot the same score today.

Let's spend 3 pages belittling her, too.

And don't forget to belittle her parents too!

Why are they still giving her bad advice at 48 years old?

[Matt_Ward]

Glenn:

You threw my suggestion on getting Pelz out on the junkyard. That was the reason for my "get real" comment. Michelle Wie has no real short game to speak about -- her short putts from six feet and under are also way below what her peers are capable in consistently producing.

Her inconsistency with the flatsick is well documented and her both job yesterday at the Women's Open when carding a 9 demonstrrates a serious deficiency that needs a major overhaul.

End of story.

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