[Dennis_Harwood]

I know there are a lot of exceptional uphill holes (including 18ths since clubhouses are often built on the highest point of ground on the property, and you must "finish" there), BUT it seem blind shots should not be favored--

Yet two of the best (or at least most recognized) holes in golf are the 8th at Pebble and the 18th at Riviera--and both involve a blind uphill tee shot.

What is the feature?  or is it simply that the great second overcomes any design weakness in the tee shot?

[Tom_Doak]

Dennis:

People rationalize the heck out of the tee shot on the 8th at Pebble.  I'm still not convinced that a blind lay-up shot is any good at all.  It's one of the best second shots in all of golf, but how you get to it is not a strong point.

At Riviera, the second shot is also the important one, but at least you can hit a full drive, even if you can't tell the correct line very well.  And staying in the fairway really matters, with the kikuyu on the left and the trees on the right.

I know I have seen other tee shots like that on lesser courses, but for now the other examples escape me ...

[Patrick Glynn]

I love this feature, not sure why. I think I can deal with any amount of blindness, so long as it makes sense in the course of playing the hole. RCD's 5th is probably the best example of this that I can think of - you must drive up and over the dune on the right, but you can actually see the start of the fairway & the parallel 2nd hole on your left.

Here is a picture of Lahinch's 3rd which also "works" in my view. The Tiger Line is over the highest point of the mount on the left, but for most its up the middle part of the V. Great tee shot IMHO.

[mike_beene]

I like the 11th at Muirfield.You really need to get that one in the fairway.Can easily be a birdie -bogey swing.

[John Foley]

17 Yale

[J_ Crisham]

The 7th at Beverly is a par 5 with a carry of 220yds to a fairway of some 30 feet in elevation. This is generally recognized as one of the best par 5s in the greater chicago area.

[JeffTodd]

I'll nominate #4 at Pine Valley.

[RJ_Daley]

Sand Hills 9th is a good one, partially blind through a notch and uphill.  And, down hill, Sutton Bay (12th?) is a good blind shot to the FW through a notch.  Both have thrilling and varied second shots.  But both tee balls are exciting as well, and not somehow taking a backseat thrill to the approach second shots, IMHO. 

[Eric Pevoto]

Tom,

Great?  Maybe.  What about the 13th at Stonewall Old?  The green end is a hell of a lot of fun.  There are a couple on the north course, as well, that I really enjoy.

[Jim Nugent]

St. Louis CC number 9.  Used to be one of my favorite holes there. 

You guys who know RCD: what about number 11? 

[Ryan Farrow]

How about #9 @ Oakmont. Hard to say if its a better hole than 18 at Riviera, but its pretty damn close.

[TEPaul]

Personally, I think one of the most exciting blind tee shots to an elevated fairway is the 12th at Old Head, Kinsale, Ireland. Additionally, I've never understood why this golf course in not more admired (certainly by some on here). It's one of the most fun and challenging courses I've ever seen and particularly when the wind is strong. Of course, the extreme drama of the site adds to this.

[Dan Kelly]

No. 17 at the original Hazeltine: long iron or fairway wood up to inverted saddle; then short-iron
second to green with two fronting hazards, right and left.

I loved it.

P.J. Boatwright didn't.

[Jed Peters]

10th at Pacific Dunes

16th at Pasatiempo

[Paul Payne]

How about 18 at Tobacco Road. Nothing in the view to even remotely calm your nerves. Just a thin green horizon to land on. Once you have played it however you realize it is not nearly as bad as it looked from the tee. More importantly, if you execute the drive, almost any position in the fairway will give you a good shot to the green. I think that is both fair and exciting.

[Rick Shefchik]

No. 17 at the original Hazeltine: long iron or fairway wood up to inverted saddle; then short-iron
second to green with two fronting hazards, right and left.

I loved it.

P.J. Boatwright didn't.

Dan,

As I remember the hole, it wasn't so much a blind tee shot as an uphill dogleg right. I recall that you could see your landing area all the way through the fairway. You just couldn't see the green because of the trees on the right.

A picture would be nice, but I think they've all been burned...

[Guy Nicholson]

Highlands Links #8 -- the name (Caber's Toss) even celebrates the up-and-over tee shot.

[Joe Bentham]

10th at Pacific Dunes

16th at Pasatiempo

Sure you don't mean 9@Pac?

[Matthew Hunt]

You guys who know RCD: what about number 11? 

Where the ball should end up is about the same height as the tee as the tee shot is over the dune befor 'Kicking' down the other side.

2+15 a RCD fit the question.

[Dennis_Harwood]

Some great holes--

But is this primarily a feature found on classic courses?  On modern courses, where terrain may lend itself to such a hole, it seems modern earth moving will build up a tee and shape the fairway so we see an uphill hole with a landing area visable from the tee -- and is this desirable?

[Patrick_Mucci]

# 2 NGLA

If you include # 9 at Oakmont, don't you have to include # 11 ?

[Ryan Farrow]

# 2 NGLA

If you include # 9 at Oakmont, don't you have to include # 11 ?

Maybe, I think 9 is a lot better hole for the average golfer but #11 is still a blind approach if you don't get a hold of one.

[Adam Clayman]

Tom, You must be hanging out with too many tour people. (emoticon omitted)
 Pebble's 8th hole tee shot was a perfect full driver for me when I first played the hole.

With the prodigious lengths nowadays, isn't there a temptation to get to the fairway past the jutting cove?

[Paul Payne]

Dennis,

Tobacco Road not a modern course?

[Dan Kelly]

No. 17 at the original Hazeltine: long iron or fairway wood up to inverted saddle; then short-iron
second to green with two fronting hazards, right and left.

I loved it.

P.J. Boatwright didn't.

Dan,

As I remember the hole, it wasn't so much a blind tee shot as an uphill dogleg right. I recall that you could see your landing area all the way through the fairway. You just couldn't see the green because of the trees on the right.

A picture would be nice, but I think they've all been burned...

Our memories differ. My memory is that one could see the *implied* landing area, because both right and left edges of the fairway were slightly elevated -- an inverted saddle. But I think you could not see the ground where the tee shots landed.

You're right. A picture would be nice.

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