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Mike Sweeney

Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« on: June 21, 2008, 05:57:41 AM »
I have not really played that many Fazio courses, but World Woods PB and now Galloway National are two very good courses in the Pine Valleyish tradition by Tom Fazio. Galloway has great, fun and unique greens. Definitely a tough course with heroic shots, I would like to play it with a better game in hand. Playing on both side of Rt 9, it is more of a riding course for the hardcore walker, but it was well worth the day.










































Played Atlantic City in the afternoon which is a perfect contrast to Galloway despite their similar locations on the marsh overlooking AC.






























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Dave Bourgeois

Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2008, 08:01:38 AM »
Wow, great pictures.  Had you played ACCC prior to the renovation?  Does it have a particular architects feel, or is it a fairly seamless mixture?

ACCC looks a lot different than I thought it would.  The public call still easily access that one correct?

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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2008, 12:01:41 PM »
« Last Edit: June 21, 2008, 12:10:10 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2008, 02:16:26 PM »
Both courses are wonderful!  Keep in mind Galloway is a private course.  Atlantic City is a public course.  If you get a chance to play either, it's well worth it. 
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Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2008, 03:12:48 PM »
Galloway is very special - tough - but special.  I have walked it a number of times and except for the 347 yard walk (caddie told us he walked it off)from the 15th to the 16th, it's really not bad. I think it has one of the best opening holes I've played.  It is kind of forced in getting as many holes near the bay, but it is still one of Fazio's best. 
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Mark Arata

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2008, 03:29:38 PM »
i played atlantic city last saturday, course is in great condition and is one of my all time favorites. I never saw it before the renovation, but it is a great golf course and I try to play it every chance I get.

Thanks for posting the pictures of Galloway, I look forward to playing there on my next visit to South Jersey.

« Last Edit: June 21, 2008, 11:00:30 PM by Mark Arata »
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cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2008, 03:54:17 PM »
I thought Galloway was an excellent course, really one of Fazio's best. If you have the opportunity to play it, don't pass it up.
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Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Mike Demetriou

Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2008, 05:05:33 PM »
Calling Gerry B!

Gerry, can you chime in here, I know you love ACCC, but what can you tell us about your perspectives on Galloway?
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Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2008, 05:29:40 PM »
Mike S,

Nice pictures.  I like particularly liked the looks of the green surrounds (last pic.) and the par 3 (sixth pic. from the end).  How do these two courses compare to Trump National GC, Bedminster?

If you like the latter, you'd probably enjoy five of Fazio's courses in Texas: Escondido (Marble Falls), Dallas National, Briggs Ranch (San Antonio), Vaquero (near Fort Worth), and Barton Creek- Canyons (Austin).
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Mike Sweeney

Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2008, 07:57:46 PM »
Quote from: Dave Bourgeois on June 21, 2008, 08:01:38 AM
Had you played ACCC prior to the renovation?  Does it have a particular architects feel, or is it a fairly seamless mixture?

ACCC looks a lot different than I thought it would.  The public call still easily access that one correct?


Dave,

I played it about a half dozen times growing up, so it was twenty years or so. It basically felt like Tom Doak put MacKenzie style bunkering on the course.

Growing up, I was obviously not as interested in GCA, but I remember the bunkering being more basic. I would be interested in the Philly Flynners view of ACCC since Tom's work. I know there has been some critique of the totally new 17th hole which is a blindish par 3, see the last picture.

I personally liked all of Tom's work including 17 at ACCC. It reminds me of Silva's work at Mountain Lake where he did an interpretive restoration of Raynor's work. In both cases the course(s) got better.

Lou,

I have no Trumpers in the portfolio.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2008, 07:59:26 PM by Mike Sweeney »
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Mitch Hantman

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Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2008, 08:35:01 PM »
Mike,

Great pics!  The 17th is a terrific little hole, although it is quite different from the other holes on the course.  What the picture doesn't show is that there are homes to the right of the green, which detracts just a tiny bit from the naturalness of the hole.  Still a great par 3.
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Mike Golden

Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2008, 08:50:41 PM »
Quote from: Mike Sweeney on June 21, 2008, 05:57:41 AM
I have not really played that many Fazio courses, but World Woods PB and now Galloway National are two very good courses in the Pine Valleyish tradition by Tom Fazio. Galloway has great, fun and unique greens. Definitely a tough course with heroic shots, I would like to play it with a better game in hand. Playing on both side of Rt 9, it is more of a riding course for the hardcore walker, but it was well worth the day.


I played Galloway about 3 years ago before the Hidden Creek outing and had no problems walking it except for the one spot on the front 9 where you don't know where the next hole is.  If I remember I scored much better at Galloway than Hidden Creek, I must have been hitting the ball much better or just have lots of problems with the internal breaks so prevalent on Coore-Crenshaw courses.
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Mike Sweeney

Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2008, 06:24:08 AM »
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Jay Flemma

Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #13 on: June 22, 2008, 01:19:11 PM »
When Fazio sticks to doing Pine valley, he does just fine.  Why are all of his PV courses generally the best :):)
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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2008, 04:53:06 PM »
Here are the rates for ACCC:

Monday to Thursday $195 and $150 after 2pm.

Friday to Sunday $225 and $175 after 2 pm.

If you're a high roller at Harrah's or Caesar's you could get comped.

There are no senior rates. :(
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2008, 06:03:27 PM »
I had the privilege of playing both Galloway and World Woods PB in the past year.  I'd agree they are of similar caliber but I felt like one feature that stood out at Galloway were the par 3s which I felt were excellent. 

The routing there is indeed weird, but I walked with a caddy and that certainly helped my cause. 

Thanks for posting a great set of photos.

Not that this is a Fazio discussion, but I would put both above the rest of the Fazio's I've played - Forest Creek, both Primm Valley courses, and Pinehursts 4 and 8)
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Dan Chapman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2008, 06:29:39 PM »
I played Galloway for the first time a couple of days ago and absolutely loved it.  It surpassed any and all expectations I had for it.  Some really neat holes, fun greens, and just a beautiful course.  Definitely a course I wanted to play again when I finished.
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Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2008, 07:14:45 PM »
I'm impressed - very impressed.

I didn't know these courses were so good (at least they look great in the pics).

Thanks for sharing!
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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2008, 05:33:36 AM »
Most folks are impressed. I am confused.  Which pix are Galloway and which are ACCC?

Ciao
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rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2008, 06:57:12 AM »
The first 20 are Galloway - up until the caption.

Note the "New Jersey" shaped fairway in the 17th photo, the par 5 16th hole.  I'm told that the shape was not intentional, but the members say that you have to remember to aim away from Camden, which is somewhat intuitive when that instruction is considered in a real life context.
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David Panzarasa

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2008, 01:11:50 AM »
After taking the advice of people here, I played Galloway today for the first time. I have to say I was floored by it. Loved the course, easily in my top 10. Very fair, not very difficult yet you need to make shots. Par 3's were strong, and to me (just my opinion) the best opening and closing holes I have seen. I liked the first and last combined more then Riviera and Merion. I took some nice pics, and will post them in the next day or so.
 Walking can be a beat on here, especially when it hit 100 degrees today. Thats my major negative to this course.  I would really like to play this again soon, so I can play some holes over, which I did not know how complex and severe the greens were. 
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mike_malone

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Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2008, 09:35:05 AM »
 I played Galloway for the first time on Friday. I was struck by how often it fought nature. From the black boxes to kill the flies to the green contours which were characterized by one of my playing partners as puttputt like.As I approached the first green I thought it must be the highest point in South Jersey!. The complete course was divorced from the surrounding environment. It was so engineered that it seemed otherwordly.

     The similarities to Pine Valley were more of an insult to me . Why not use the wonderful angles that PV uses with its fairway bunkers to offer you options off the tee. I felt like a straight teeshot down the middle was the best option all day. Only #17 impressed me. Other than that each hole was not memorable.

   We all thought Twisted Dune was much more fun and one said Atlantic City blew it away.

   It isn't a bad course.  It is just a waste of money! It just makes me scratch my head as to what GD looks for in a top 100 course.

  I actually did not find the course to be hard until you got to the greens. As opposed to the classic greens that have subtle breaks this course's greens were designed by some random computer program that was annoying.
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AKA Mayday

Andy Troeger

Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2008, 10:02:40 AM »
I'm curious what folks that like these courses like about them; a few folks elaborated but many of the comments are pretty general. I'm trying to figure out what's different about Galloway than some of the Fazio's I've seen. Michael Malone's comments make me wonder if there is much difference strategically and its just in a sandy dunesy setting in parts.

Atlantic City looks fairly subtle, seems kind of hard to tell much from the photos on that one.
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Mike Sweeney

Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2008, 05:04:37 PM »
Quote from: michael_malone on July 19, 2008, 09:35:05 AM
  It was so engineered that it seemed otherwordly.

Sounds like National?



Quote from: michael_malone on July 19, 2008, 09:35:05 AM
to the green contours which were characterized by one of my playing partners as puttputt like.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2008, 05:08:06 PM by Mike Sweeney »
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mike_malone

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Re: Jersey Shore Twofer - Galloway and Atlantic City CC
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2008, 09:10:03 AM »
 Was the hill to the right of #1 at NGLA engineered ? The hill on #2 ? and so on?  Everything at Galloway was constructed as far as I can tell. Also the greens at NGLA while certainly less natural than Flynn's style at least have much opportunity to get the ball to roll along some "read" you make. Galloway's greens aeem designed to just confound and repel.
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AKA Mayday
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