We-Ko-Pa Saguaro (Arizona) course w/pics

[Jim Johnson]

To quote Bill Shamleffer on the "What is RIGHT with GCA.com" thread...

"In fact the very best part of this site is the pictures.  (I admit it; I prefer looking at the pictures over reading the articles.)"

                                                     ~

My wife and I had the pleasure of staying and playing at the We-Ko-Pa resort in Fountain Hills, Arizona about a month ago. We then traveled a bit north and golfed at the Sedona Golf Resort the next day. Weather was perfect, mid-80's - 90's, and the golf was, well, ahem, not perfect...but enjoyable nonetheless.

For those like Bill who enjoy looking at pictures of golf courses, I've posted several photos of the We-Ko-Pa Cholla course on another thread. I thought I'd add some pics of the Saguaro course on this new thread, and then photos of the Sedona Golf Resort on yet another thread.

We-Ko-Pa Saguaro...
A Coore-Crenshaw design, the Saguaro course opened in December 2006. According to We-Ko-Pa's website, Golfweek ranks the course #1 for public courses in the state of Arizona. 6,966 yards from the tips, the course plays 6,252 yards from the "middle" tees, which I (a 14 handicapper) chose to play.

To quote some text from the course booklet I picked up in their pro shop...
"Architects Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw integrated design elements into this golf course not commonly seen in the desert southwest. Saguaro is much like the older more traditional courses, where greens are close to tees and the course follows the natural movement of the land.
In Saguaro, Coore and Crenshaw re-introduced the all-important art form of tying the entrances to the greens into the greens themselves. The majority of the greens are open in front to allow for run-up shots. It is the subtle pitch and roll of the terrain on the approach to the greens that give each hole much of its unique playing characteristics.
When playing Saguaro, the boney ground and natural slopes may add an element of "sting" to the course, as the golf ball will bounce and roll along the native terrain. This is by design and is a strategic element both Coore and Crenshaw places great emphasis on."

From the middle tees, Saguaro's course rating is 69.1 and the slope is 128. From the tournament tees (6,966 yds) the course rating is 72.4 and the slope is 138. Overall, both Cholla and Saguaro were in excellent condition, but cart-path only golf was in effect for all 18 holes on both courses. Located on the Fort McDowell Yavapai Nation, water restrictions are not in effect to the degree that other courses in the Phoenix area contend with. Thus, neither the Cholla or the Saguaro courses are what you would call "target-style" golf.

Some photos of the Saguaro course...

Looking across the fairway of the par-5 4th hole...easy to see why they named the course Saguaro...the retired couple we golfed with had a medical "permit" for driving on the fairway...



Taken from the same spot as above, now turned and looking down the fairway toward the green, on the 4th, a par-5 of 631 yards from the tips, 595 from the middle tees...



View from the tee of the par-4 6th hole, 442 yards (tips) and 380 (middle). The hole is a gentle dogleg left, hitting to a bit of a plateaued fairway, with "saving" bunkers down the left side on the lower slope. The green is angled however, thus it's best to drive down the left side.



Par-3 11th hole at Saguaro; 197 yds. (tips) and 176 (middle tees), with plenty of room to run your golf ball up onto the green...



The 14th hole...a par-5 with a split fairway... 538 yds. (tips) and 513 (middle tees)...



I'll try to post a few photos of the Sedona course this weekend.

JJ

[Matthew Petersen]

I've only played Saguaro once, but I loved it and hope to get back. I played it in August (2008) so it was playing very firm but was well-conditioned enough so that I wouldn't call it "hard."

Many holes stick in my memory but probably none so much as the second, a reachable two-shot hole.

The hole is 316 from the tips and thus is very reachable given the firm conditions and dry desert air. The hole moves slightly left-to-right with the slope of the land, falling off most severely up by the green. If the player wants to lay up, the landing zone is defined by three sand traps--a player can hit a 200 yard shot short of the first sand on the left or a 220-yard shot that would end up between the three. Three sand traps with steep edges tightly hug the right side of the green--if a shot should miss right of the sand or kick hard off the slope and over the sand it will be well down into the desert.

For the player considering attempting to drive the green, the left side looks like a safe area to bail out. There is no sand left of the green but there's a wide berth of grass--plenty of fairway and even more rough buffer before the desert. I know that I was quite pleased with my drive that ended up nearly pin high but perhaps 20 feet left of the green. But it was only when I reached my ball that i realized the difficulty ahead. As the hole moves left-to-right, so does the green and it is very difficult to keep a chip shot or even a putt from the fairway left of the green from running all the way through the green and down into the sand. While the edge of the sand traps is steep, the level of the sand is not especially deep and the recovery shot from there is not too difficult.

An excellent hole with multiple options for all types of players.

[Anthony Gray]

  Four guys from my club played there a few weeks ago and loved it. They also played the TPC course in the area. They got some deal including airfare that was extremely inexpensive.

  Anthony

[Matthew Petersen]

Beyond the novelty of playing a TPC course that we all see on television every year, there's not much to recommend the Stadium course at TPC Scottsdale. It's one of the least interesting courses in the area.

[Dan Chapman]

I just got back from a trip out there.  Of all of the courses I've played in the Scottsdale area I would definitely say Saguaro is my favorite.  Very fun course to play and the conditions have been terrific everytime I've seen it.  Also a very good value relative to some of the other courses in the area.

[Mike Cirba]

Hmmm...wonder what happened here originally?

Too bad the original thread didn't get more responses or our guest Mr. Johnson might still be with us.   

Back to topic, I'm playing there at the end of March and looking forward to it as I recall redanman telling me that this was perhaps his favorite of C&C's courses.

[Andy Troeger]

I just got back from a trip out there.  Of all of the courses I've played in the Scottsdale area I would definitely say Saguaro is my favorite.  Very fun course to play and the conditions have been terrific everytime I've seen it.  Also a very good value relative to some of the other courses in the area.

Agree with this--I've had a chance to play most of the private clubs in the area and Saguaro is my favorite as well. I've only played four C & C courses but Saguaro is my favorite of those as well (Colorado GC a close second, also Warren and Talking Stick North).

[Tony Weiler]

Those pics bring back some fond memories.  I really enjoyed the Saguaro, and only having played it once, I recall where, and what I did, on the holes pictured.  That must make it memorable!!

[George Freeman]

I definitely agree with the sentiments above as I thoroughly enjoyed my round at We-Ke-Pa Saguaro.  At the time is was my first time playing a C&C course and even though it isn't labeled as one of their top designs, my high expectations were met.

I also agree that the second is a really cool and good short par 4:

[Scott Warren]

Hmmm...wonder what happened here originally?

Too bad the original thread didn't get more responses or our guest Mr. Johnson might still be with us.   

I thought the same thing!

Saguaro looks amazing.

[Carl Nichols]

George:
I thought #2 was a reallly good hole, also.  More generally, count me as a big fan of Saguaro -- although I might give the slight nod to Desert Forest over it....

[Jim Sweeney]

My third favorite in the va;;ey after Desert Forest and Talking Stick North. TSN is just more dramatic. Saguaro may ne the most enjoyable, though.

Mike Cirba" I hope you can/do walk, because cart golf on this course diminished the pleasure of walking from the green complex directly onto the next tee complex, whcih happens on many holes. There is one climb- I think it is 14 green to 15 tee, but the ensuing view is worth it.

[Mike Cirba]

Jim Sweeney,

It's the last course I play that week, but I'll walk if I can still crawl by then after a brutally long winter layoff in the northeast.

[Jason Walker]

Mike-

What else is on the agenda?

[Mike Cirba]

Jason,

If I hold up, I'm planning on playing Papago Muni, Desert Mountain (Cochise), Desert Highlands, hopefully Desert Forest, Wildfire (Faldo), Wildfire (Palmer), and We Ko Pa (Saguaro) and possibly one more between Sat morn and Wed. morn.   

No sleep, til Phoenix, to coin an old Beastie Boy's song. 

[Kalen Braley]

Jason,

If I hold up, I'm planning on playing Papago Muni, Desert Mountain (Cochise), Desert Highlands, hopefully Desert Forest, Wildfire (Faldo), Wildfire (Palmer), and We Ko Pa (Saguaro) and possibly one more between Sat morn and Wed. morn.   

No sleep, til Phoenix, to coin an old Beastie Boy's song. 

Mike,

Its great to have you back....great song indeed!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Y0cy-nvAg

[Tony Weiler]

Jason,

If I hold up, I'm planning on playing Papago Muni, Desert Mountain (Cochise), Desert Highlands, hopefully Desert Forest, Wildfire (Faldo), Wildfire (Palmer), and We Ko Pa (Saguaro) and possibly one more between Sat morn and Wed. morn.   

No sleep, til Phoenix, to coin an old Beastie Boy's song. 

Mike, play Vista Verde and give a comparison.  Don't play SunRidge Canyon, but if you do, I'd love your thoughts on it. 

[Mike Cirba]

Tony,

Are you asking that I compare Vista Verde with Papago?

I've heard exceptionally good things about Vista Verde and hope to see it.

Why the no-go on SunRidge Canyon?

[Tony Weiler]

Tony,

Are you asking that I compare Vista Verde with Papago?

I've heard exceptionally good things about Vista Verde and hope to see it.

Why the no-go on SunRidge Canyon?

No really VV vs. Papago, just in general.  A month or so back, there was a lot of discussion on SunRidge, and my thoughts on why I didn't like it.  Some others really did, and that's why now I would like to know what others thought.  It was the thread on "Best Public in each State" or something of that nature. 

[jonathan_becker]

IMO, of the public desert courses in AZ, Saguaro is the best that you can play.