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kclarke

Please provide world ranking
« on: July 10, 2002, 07:03:07 PM »
I enjoy this site immensely and was wondering if you could provide a world ranking for your readers? There is a wealth of knowledge here that surpasses that of any publication and the ensuing discussion would make it relevant.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

guest

Re: Please provide world ranking
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2002, 07:10:52 PM »
can M Ward please be on the panel, we need plenty of 7500 yard gems, not the sissy courses the founder of this site continues to profile, three perfect examples of this sissy BS are Maidstone, Swinley Forest and Eastward Ho.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Please provide world ranking
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2002, 02:42:17 PM »
I'll  start the list with my top 10:

1.  Cypress Point
2.  Royal County Down
3.  Shinnecock Hills
4.  Pine Valley
5.  Turnberry
6.  Pinehurst #2
7.  Royal Dornoch
8   Winged Foot - West
9.  St. Andrews - Old
10.  Ballybunion - Old

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Matt_Ward

Re: Please provide world ranking
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2002, 02:53:18 PM »
guest:

When you have the gumption to post your name I will dignify a more complete response. If you care to be a real man you can even send me a post offline at mattwardgolf@hotmail.com

I have mentioned numerous courses -- not 7,500 yard monsters during my time on GCA. If you take the time to read a few of my threads you will see that's the case. Among the more recent ones cited include Fenway, Prairie Dunes, Pacific Dunes, The Kingsley Club, to name just a few.

I also posted the qualities of such courses from a recent trek to New England -- Equinox and Ekwanok -- both under 6,600 yards.

What bores me is hearing from people who wax on lyrically about all these gems of courses that are short yardage wise because many times the reality is they don't want to play courses that will test other aspects of golf they don't have in their personal arsenal such as long iron play or even woods with their second shots on longish par-4's.

I take a much more pragmatic view on the range of courses that I prefer. Do you?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Please provide world ranking
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2002, 12:52:00 AM »
kclarke,
  If you are interested in architecture let us know what area of the country you play in and I'm sure guys from that region will give you plenty of courses to seek out. I did that not to long ago for the NoCal region and had a great response that will keep me busy for the rest of the year. You are right about this being the best resource for finding worthy courses to check out. I haven' t played a course I didn't like in the past year since finding GCA. Some courses I highly recommend are Stevinson Ranch (NoCal); Barona Creek (San Diego area); Rustic Canyon (No of LA); The Kingsley Club (Northern Michigan); Lost Dunes (SW coast of Michigan). The first three are public access. Welcome to the site!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

kclarke

Re: Please provide world ranking
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2002, 08:41:51 PM »
Paul Richards, What criteria did you use?

Ed Getka, I live in New York. My two favorite courses are Kingston Heath and Oakmont because they are a balanced test requiring accurate driving and good putting without favoring any aspect of the game over the other. You can not chip and putt your way around either course and the bunkers remain penal which is what it is supposed to be.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Chris Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Please provide world ranking
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2002, 08:44:05 PM »
Who said that bunkers had to be penal?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Daley

Re: Please provide world ranking
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2002, 09:09:27 PM »
Paul: Super list! Disagreeing about these things is ridiculous becuase it is all so personal and subjective. I won't be harpooning your list at all. Having said that, I can assume you haven't played Royal Melbourne, for is so, would no doubt see it among your top-half. Cheers.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Michael_Burrows

Re: Please provide world ranking
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2002, 11:52:28 PM »
M Ward

Could you please list some of the "Short" courses that you do not like.

Cypress Point -6524 yds
Crystal Downs- 6518
Merion Golf Club- 6482
Chicago Golf Club 6574
Royal Dornoch - 6482


Do you not think that these courses test the player ability to hit good shots?


« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Please provide world ranking
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2002, 12:26:26 AM »
Add Pasatiempo to the list of "long" short courses by A.M.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

kclarke

Re: Please provide world ranking
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2002, 12:46:44 AM »
Chris Kane, I am not in support of how the bunker has evolved away from being a hazard. Much has been lost. I hate hearing pros yelling for their ball to get into a bunker.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Chris Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Please provide world ranking
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2002, 06:13:27 AM »
The reason they yell 'get in the bunker' is because the long rough beside that bunker is so difficult to play a shot from.  The problem is with the rough, not the bunkers.

Bunkering should be strategic, not penal, IMHO.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Please provide world ranking
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2002, 12:02:49 PM »
Chris Kane,

Don't you feel that penal bunkers emphasize and elevate strategy ??
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Please provide world ranking
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2002, 12:09:40 PM »
Chris,
 If bunkering is not penal then how is it strategic? If I am not worried about extracting myself from the bunker it is not going to dictate strategy for me. Obviously being on the short grass is preferable to being in the sand, but how is a bunker that isn't penal dictating strategy?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Matt_Ward

Re: Please provide world ranking
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2002, 03:35:09 PM »
Michael Burrows:

To answer your question would require a good bit of time since I believe there are a number of "short" courses that I like. Among the ones that come immediately to mind in no particular order include:

*Cypress Point
*Prairie Dunes
*SFGC
*Merion / East
*Crystal Downs
*Pacific Dunes
*Fisher's Island
*Camargo Club
*Wannamoisett (great short course that has plenty of bite for a par-69)
*Winged Foot / East

Those are on my first page of all courses. I have not played Chicago so I can't comment. A few I enjoy, but are a full notch below the above listing.

They include:

*The Kittanset Club
*Somerset Hills

Some that I believe are overrated include:

*Maidstone
*Shoreacreas

My position is that great courses under a certain yardage (let's just say 6,600 yards) become difficult to attain unless there is some compelling architectural quality included (lower par figure, interesting greens, great land, etc, etc.). In my mind, there has to be some long par-4's or long par-3's thrown into the equation to "spice" up the action. Clearly, others disagree and that's what makes such discussions interesting. Hope my answer helps ...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

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