Knollwood Club

[kconway]

the knollwood club in lake forest, illinois is proposing a significant course rennovation.

the principal intent of the project includes:
     - improving sand trip quality/drainage
     - reshaping and repositiong certain traps to improve playability
     - levelling and sqauring tee complexes
     - adding several new tees to add yardage and add new angles
     - expading a number of green surfaces back to their original size to recapture pin positions and reconnect greens to their adjacent traps

the work is being overseen by keith forster.

i would appreciate comments about the the need for this project from people who played knollwood

[PThomas]

Knollwood is a good course now; the renovations would make it only better

and Foster is certainly qualified to do the work

[Patrick_Mucci]

Kconway,

I played Knollwood when they held the Mid-Am years ago.

I thought it was a neat golf course, in excellent condition, with an excellent practice facility, a unique locker room, and a superior green superintendent and a fine Pro.

I'd have to see the details of any plan before commenting on it.

However, restoring green lines to their original configuration would seem to be a prudent venture.  I think the same can be said for leveling and squaring tees as well as improving drainage.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Was the reno by Foster ever done?

My former golf instructor is now resident teaching pro there:
http://www.shanelebarongolf.com/about/

[Terry Lavin]

Was the reno by Foster ever done?

My former golf instructor is now resident teaching pro there:
http://www.shanelebarongolf.com/about/

Yes,  it was completed two years ago, as I recall.  The club accepted pretty much every part of Foster's plan except the 13th Hole which was, and still is, the worst and most out-of-character hole on the golf course.  Rumor has it that Bob O'Link is strongly considering Foster for a possible, and overdue, restoration of its golf course. 

[Mark McKeever]

If they are considering Foster, just direct them to the Philly Cricket tread.    

Mark

[Howard Riefs]

Knollwood, along with Conway Farms, was a venue for the stroke play for the 2012 US Mid-Am.

The course was very well received and many preferred it to Conway.

[Jason Mandel]

I caddied for my brother a few years ago at the US Mid AM at Knollwood and Conway Farms with the Match play at Conway. Almost to a man the players enjoyed Knollwood a considerable amount better then Conway.

In particular I remember the greens being spectacular as well as the green side bunkering. I think a careful restoration by Foster, who just did Cricket's work and did a great job there, could only enhance the place.

Can't say that its "needed", because like I said I think the product that's there already is great, but it would elevate the course to a new level I'm sure.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I should have looked at Foster's website:

http://keithfostergolfarchitect.com/partial-list-completed-renovation-programs

[David Davis]

I've played Knollwood several times.

Afraid I can't help much on the reno work. I'm sure it will be improvements or can't imagine they would be doing it. I've never been there outside of middle of summer so never experienced any issues with the bunkers and certainly no drainage issues.

     - reshaping and repositiong certain traps to improve playability

Love to see photos here.

     - levelling and sqauring tee complexes

Compared to continental Europe they are probably better now before the reno as almost any course over here.

     - adding several new tees to add yardage and add new angles

That could be very interesting. Would be nice to see the course again post reno work.

     - expading a number of green surfaces back to their original size to recapture pin positions and reconnect greens to their adjacent traps

Sounds interesting as well. Would have to have specific examples to comment here as well.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

As Lavin, J. stated aboe, the work was done about 2 years ago. Take a look at the pictures here:

http://www.knollwoodclub.org/default.aspx?p=CourseHole&vnf=1&ssid=171648&view=&crsID=1243&hole=17

[Ian Mackenzie]

the knollwood club in lake forest, illinois is proposing a significant course rennovation.

the principal intent of the project includes:
     - improving sand trip quality/drainage
     - reshaping and repositiong certain traps to improve playability
     - levelling and sqauring tee complexes
     - adding several new tees to add yardage and add new angles
     - expading a number of green surfaces back to their original size to recapture pin positions and reconnect greens to their adjacent traps

the work is being overseen by keith forster.

i would appreciate comments about the the need for this project from people who played knollwood

WHAT??!!

Keith Foster DID do the work there and I have played the course 6 times in the past 2 years.  I thought that all bunkers had been done as they show the telltale signs of Keith Foster just like at CC of Detroit. BTW, I think the bright white sand looks out of place, but I would have thought that the bunkers would have had new drainage and liners in them.

I'm in favor of leveling tees but squaring them off is not necessary and can look too severe and are hard to cut and maintain.
I last played it in Early May and the greens were sweet.

Hope the club takes a different approach than last time. If what you're saying is true, then the work done last time was incomplete.

[Matthew Sander]

the knollwood club in lake forest, illinois is proposing a significant course rennovation.

the principal intent of the project includes:
     - improving sand trip quality/drainage
     - reshaping and repositiong certain traps to improve playability
     - levelling and sqauring tee complexes
     - adding several new tees to add yardage and add new angles
     - expading a number of green surfaces back to their original size to recapture pin positions and reconnect greens to their adjacent traps

the work is being overseen by keith forster.

i would appreciate comments about the the need for this project from people who played knollwood

WHAT??!!

Keith Foster DID do the work there and I have played the course 6 times in the past 2 years.  I thought that all bunkers had been done as they show the telltale signs of Keith Foster just like at CC of Detroit. BTW, I think the bright white sand looks out of place, but I would have thought that the bunkers would have had new drainage and liners in them.

I'm in favor of leveling tees but squaring them off is not necessary and can look too severe and are hard to cut and maintain.
I last played it in Early May and the greens were sweet.

Hope the club takes a different approach than last time. If what you're saying is true, then the work done last time was incomplete.

Ian,

That post was from 2008, so you are referring to the same work. Just giving you a heads up...

[Ian Mackenzie]

Thanks, Matt.
I should check the dates.

Don't know how/why this thread was bumped.

[J_ Crisham]

I played Knollwood 4 weeks ago and the fairways and bunkers were in very nice shape. The greens were pretty fragile- I counted 6 that had issues with dead or very thin grass- ie dirt exposed. Unfortunately this was 2 days before US Open Qualifying there. I would add that this was not a situation unique to Knollwood . Many of our clubs in Chicago got beaten up due to the harsh winter. My hope is that the greens are now where they want them. I have played Knollwood 5 or 6 times in the last 10 yrs and really enjoy it. The property is flattish but the greens are generally elevated- some really good par 4's. Par 5's are not too difficult. Fun place to spend a day.

[Patrick_Mucci]

the knollwood club in lake forest, illinois is proposing a significant course rennovation.

the principal intent of the project includes:
     - improving sand trip quality/drainage
     - reshaping and repositiong certain traps to improve playability
     - levelling and sqauring tee complexes
     - adding several new tees to add yardage and add new angles
     - expading a number of green surfaces back to their original size to recapture pin positions and reconnect greens to their adjacent traps

the work is being overseen by keith forster.

i would appreciate comments about the the need for this project from people who played knollwood

Seems reasonable to me.

Why would you be opposed to it ?

[Frank Pont]

Played Knollwood with Jud T last year when I was visiting Chicago. Maybe he can chime in as well.

http://ivgd.smugmug.com/Golf-Architecture-Pictures/USA/Illinois/Knollwood/

I really like the pics I have seen of Keith Fosters work at Orchard Lake and Philly Crickett, but was disappointed with the results at Knollwood.

Main issues: still way too many trees left, fairways not nearly wide enough, straight mowing lines, bunker shapes (compare them to Orchard Lake) and the lack of short grass around the (mostly raised) greens.

I did like how the full green sizes were brought back, and the visuals of the new tees.

Reading through the post I see that some of these points were not part of his remit, but they really should have been to get the most out of the course. Maybe he lost the political battle to get them included, or maybe the process of tree removal and fairway widening is still ongoing, not sure.....

[Frank Pont]

Played Knollwood with Jud T last year when I was visiting Chicago. Maybe he can chime in as well.

http://ivgd.smugmug.com/Golf-Architecture-Pictures/USA/Illinois/Knollwood/

I really like the pics I have seen of Keith Fosters work at Orchard Lake and Philly Crickett, but was disappointed with the results at Knollwood.

Main issues: still way too many trees left, fairways not nearly wide enough, straight mowing lines, bunker shapes (compare them to Orchard Lake) and the lack of short grass around the (mostly raised) greens.

I did like how the full green sizes were brought back, and the visuals of the new tees.

Reading through the post I see that some of the above points I raise were not part of his remit, but they really should have been to get the most out of the course. Maybe he lost the political battle to get them included, or maybe the process of tree removal and fairway widening is still silently ongoing, not sure.....

[Jud_T]

Frank,

I'm pretty much in agreement.  I used to play there somewhat regularly as I worked with several members, and I'm a fan of some of Foster's other work, so I was very keen to see the renovation after a number of years.  Aside from the much needed bunker drainage work, I really didn't notice much change.  I know at the time it came before the membership that it was contentious financially, so I can only surmise that a lot of what Foster proposed wasn't approved.  Still really like the short 4 second and hate the awkward short 4 on the back.

[Aaron McMaster]

As part of my research for the project at Orchard Lake I visited a couple of Keith's projects, Knollwood was one of those places.  My first comment to Keith was tell me your not finished taking trees, since it was really still a forest.  He definitely struggled with certain ideas with all involved on that front, since I saw it back in the fall of 2010 I would hope they've ripped out a good 1000 but not sure that membership has the stomach for it.  Unreal the amount of flowering trees at that place.

The entire bunker look was dictated by the club.  They wanted the bright white sand and the crisp edge look and ultimately it's there track, although you do need to help lead them since a lot of the time they just can't visualize it.  The bunker look at Orchard Lake was talked about for quite awhile too get members to buy into the rough look and letting the fescue grass edges grow longer.  We lost out on using brown sand but we did find a good compromise in the elite pro angle which adds in a brown/orange sand to regular pro angle so it's not nearly as white.

One of the things I think Keith did there that was very cool was take a couple really flat landing areas and build them up for about 80 yards so he could place the fairway bunkers underneath the terrain.  I don't remember holes very well since I was just taking a quick ride but I specifically remember 10 having nice fairway bunkers that were totally contrived by lifting the flat fairway and you really couldn't tell.  All in all a pretty good track but nothing spectacular.  They really liked what they had and just wanted a bunker upgrade mostly, zero chance of a game changing redo.

My guess to is since they closed to do the redo, I'd bet after this winter they wished they had regrassed the greens.