Wilshire CC (MacBeth) (pics)

[Jon Spaulding]

Had the opportunity to return here the other day.....dragging a fellow GCA'er Dave Stamm with me, kicking and screaming .  I had not been out in a couple of years and was reminded of what a special place this is; would personally place it with Victoria Club as a must-see in Southern CA, once one has done the the "big names" thing. If it is quirk you seek, then head straight to either one and you'll be glad you did.

The course was designed by Norman MacBeth in 1919 (one of the founding members of LACC). Alterations were later made by Jack Croke (Pasadena GC, NLE) when Beverly Blvd was put thru the property. Dave and I both felt that other work had been done based on the current appearance, which is being researched. I found the bunkering to be inconsistent in appearance, scale, and placement, with distinct similarities to a some other SCA designs. The bermuda turf is kept at above-average firmness which is encouraging.

Most exciting, in my mind, is the use of the creek in a variety of different manners, along with a recurring proximity of greenside bunkering/hazards...to the putting surface. Ample width is provided in most of the fairways for a fun day on the course. Why can't more courses in our area embrace these radical, free-wheeling concepts!

As with most anywhere, a few concerns about the state of affairs (trees), but I prefer to focus on positives of course (the way it is today). Got a kick out of "Ardmore Avenue" being one of the cross streets leading up to the course . Rather than do a 1-18 ramble, I'll start with the holes that could be considered interesting.

#10 - par 3 playing 150 yards. one of the best, if not the best, short 3's in Southern CA. We saw this with a rear pin, but there a many solid hole locations on this green, which is very shallow throughout. The scale of the hazards relative to the size of the green creates tension. I know of few holes in the area where one could face recovery shots that you have never seen, or might never see again unless you played this hole!

tee shot


greensite looking from front left


grass depression @ rear left of green


green from rear


green from back right


#18 - par 4, well documented as a quality golf hole. Plays 440 yards, requiring a l-r tee shot and a r-l approach to a green that at one time extended out to the hazard on three sides. I would assume that the concrete wall was added as an erosion measure; the shrinking of the green is a human one that needs to be corrected! If the tee shot challenges the creek on the right side of the hole, the player has an open look, as well as the ability to run the ball into into a green that's a bit more sloped than it appears. Conceptually, the hole is very similar to #8 @ LA North (old version).....just a bit harder to make par on.

looking back at the hole


Tee Shot


2nd shot from right side of the fairway


challenge the hazard.....better look


#14 - par 5 playing 520 yards (DS confirm this) - short on the card, plays into the prevailing wind and somewhat uphill....no simple par here. A creek guards the left side of the hole the entire length, and the bold player who goes for the green in two and fails is penalized with a narrow green which is crowned and falls off steeply on all sides into some form of hazard.

tee shot


2nd shot - sling a hook or go home


preferred 3rd shot - note hole location rear left


#15 - par 4 playing 315 yards - hit it long over the bunkers, or skirt them here. Making a 4 from the open left side is not going to happen very often.

2nd shot


other view of 2nd shot


weird roughed in hump guarding run-up


heavily sloping green with bunkers cut into it on either side.


#17 - short par 4 with impressive bunkering guarding an elevated greensite. The bunkering reeks of what one would find on a Max Behr course....who was a member here


#2 - short par 5 with some Alps-inspiration.....


#4 - 180 yard par 3 with green that used to be connected......


#7 - 135 yard par 3 - excellent hole, save the cart path




#8 - 360 yard par 4 with something for all you Cubs fans


......and something for you fans of Howard Hughes


#9 - 420 yard par 4 with great tee shot (connected to the neighborhood concept)


a look at the LZ with the Hollywood sign as a backdrop


well protected pin location with strong r-l green movement for the run-in shot


#12 - 440 yard par 4 with creek guarding the LH side, bunkering and appearance very similar to something to the west off Wilshire Blvd....


approach shot


#13 - another great short hole

[David Panzarasa]

Thanks for the pictures.
 I have said time and time again, it is one of the best courses I have played. While I love LACC, Riviera, Bel Air, Sherwood, this course just has something about it. Its sporty and fun to play, best approach shots and par 3's as a "whole" in LA (in my opinion). 

[Jordan Caron]

John,

Thanks for posting those excellent pics.  Love the small and narrow greens especially 10, 15 and 7.  With the bunkers so close to the greens, I think it would look better if they just shaved the rough down so it's just fringe leading into the bunkers.  Almost like the great courses in Australia.  I love short holes that require precision approach shots like #15 has,.  A back left pin tucked over the bunker would not be fun to attack!

Thanks again John.

[rjsimper]

I cited Wilshire as one of those courses that for some reason or another, I've always wanted to play.  Unfortunately, I never got around to it before leaving LA...however I did walk it once when they held a senior tour event way back when....10 and 18 are very special holes.

Seems like most local opinion on the place is solid but not inspired...and the greens are their clame to fame speed-wise.  Were they lightning, Spaulding?

[Tom Huckaby]

Great pics, Jon - thanks for posting.

Ryan, I'd call it quite a bit better than "solid but not inspired"; as Jon's pics show, there is a lot of quirk there, and a lot of inspiring shots to be played.  I've always thought of Wilshire as a damn good course, just a tiny cut below Riv and LACC and Bel-Air... the best of the rest in LA, so to speak.  And yes, the greens can get VERY quick there for sure.  I have some horror putting stories from high school matches.. sigh....

One of my college buddies is a member there and he loves it.  Great course, great club. 

TH

[rjsimper]

Definitely not saying that's true of the course - I'm just talking about what the local talk of the town is - people fall over themselves to play Riv, LACC, Bel-Air, and then Wilshire and Hillcrest seem to fall into the same category of reverence - nice to play, but don't risk your job by cutting work...not endorsing or refuting this feeling, just stating what I've noticed. 

[Tom Huckaby]

Definitely not saying that's true of the course - I'm just talking about what the local talk of the town is - people fall over themselves to play Riv, LACC, Bel-Air, and then Wilshire and Hillcrest seem to fall into the same category of reverence - nice to play, but don't risk your job by cutting work...not endorsing or refuting this feeling, just stating what I've noticed. 

Gotcha.  And you know... I think you have it correct - that is the feeling.

I think it's usually held by those who haven't actually played the course, however.  But Wilishire is definitely second-fiddle in perception.

TH

[David Stamm]

Jon, per your request, the yardage book says 14 is 509.


Wilshire is fantastic. I honestly don't know of one bad hole there. It has a little of everything. I agree with Huck, a tiny notch below the big three and should not be missed if the chance presents itself. Ryan, the greens were fast, but not greased lightning fast. As Jon said, the use of the creek throughout the property is wonderful and the routing is top notch. I had heard that Wilshire was good, but I was surprised how good it really is. Good mix of short and long par 4's. great collection of par 3's and the par 5's have interest.

[Phil McDade]

Jon:

I really like the way the course look like it sets up for different angles of attack into the greens based on fairway location. The greens, open approaches, bunkering esp., and what looks to be pretty F/F conditions make it look like a course in which placement of the ball off the tee really makes a difference in how you consider your approach shot into the green.

[tlavin]

I was glad to see this post.  I have always held Wilshire in high regard for two reasons.  First and foremost, they get a lot of golf out of a wacky site.  Nine holes on one side of a busy street and nine holes on the other, with a one-cart tunnel separating the nines.  Despite this circumstance, the golf course is top-notch.  I won't go so far as to say that it is the equal of LACC or the Riv, but it is very good.  The greens might be the best I've ever putted.  The overall feel of the golf course is subdued, challenging and undeniably classic.  The final point is that the members and the staff have always treated me like I am a member.  I got set up through our club professional and I can honestly say that I've never been treated better at a private club.  If you go to LA and don't play Wilshire, you're missing out on a great experience.

[Tom Huckaby]

I was glad to see this post.  I have always held Wilshire in high regard for two reasons.  First and foremost, they get a lot of golf out of a wacky site.  Nine holes on one side of a busy street and nine holes on the other, with a one-cart tunnel separating the nines.  Despite this circumstance, the golf course is top-notch.  I won't go so far as to say that it is the equal of LACC or the Riv, but it is very good.  The greens might be the best I've ever putted.  The overall feel of the golf course is subdued, challenging and undeniably classic.  The final point is that the members and the staff have always treated me like I am a member.  I got set up through our club professional and I can honestly say that I've never been treated better at a private club.  If you go to LA and don't play Wilshire, you're missing out on a great experience.

That is all exceedingly well said, Terry.  The club is very "welcoming" for sure... I've always had the same feeling you see to have gotten.  Like I say, great course, great club.

TH

[Adam Clayman]

Davis Love Designs did the most recent work there that I'm aware of. From my perspective it mostly involved issues with the barranca that runs through the property. Although there may have been some other small tweaks.

I'm a fan of the course. The stretch from 2 to 12 is a wonderful mix of holes on a tight site.
#9 has the blind tee shot where the famous "which letter" Hogan quote originated.

[Jon Spaulding]

Definitely not saying that's true of the course - I'm just talking about what the local talk of the town is - people fall over themselves to play Riv, LACC, Bel-Air, and then Wilshire and Hillcrest seem to fall into the same category of reverence - nice to play, but don't risk your job by cutting work...not endorsing or refuting this feeling, just stating what I've noticed. 

The greens were not terribly good; they had been doing some work on them within the last week or so. When I was there a couple years ago they were flawless.

No doubt as to a 2nd-tier perception within the area. Hell, you never even played there you PV snob .

Let's consider that many guys that "wouldn't cut work for Wilshire"......are the same ones that give you the Nigel Tufnel blank stare when you tell them why a blind shot might actually a fun thing, or that you played Yale, yes they have a golf course, and it was designed by this MacRaynor guy.......well what else did he do....NGLA...where's that....NY...oh, you mean where Phil blew it....no, it's a template course on the east end of long island.....what's a template.....

IMO we find some of our best courses below the radar, which are lesser thought of/lesser known by the masses. I firmly believe that quirk drives SCA residents mad. I can't tell you the number of people I've met in the last 12 months that think Victoria is "tricked up and stupid". Enough said!

[Mike_Cirba]

John,

Wilshire looks terrific...thanks for posting those pics!

[Adam Clayman]

Jon, I'm working on a theory about the state of Golf in America. It begins with the self interested not liking anything that would identify one's deeper character. If that ain't the Southland, nothing is.

[Jon Spaulding]

Davis Love Designs did the most recent work there that I'm aware of. From my perspective it mostly involved issues with the barranca that runs through the property. Although there may have been some other small tweaks.

I'm a fan of the course. The stretch from 2 to 12 is a wonderful mix of holes on a tight site.
#9 has the blind tee shot where the famous "which letter" Hogan quote originated.

Perhaps Paul Cowley can chime in on what Love design did on the property. The erosion work on 18 and perhaps 3 look to have been done fairly recently.

I had forgotten about the Hogan legend; someone mentioned it last time. This go around the story was about Hughes holding drinking games with friends, playing 6 thru 8 late in the day, with the mandate that his companion of the time be standing adjacent to the 8th green in the buff on their return.

The drill-bit tee markers donated by Hughes are another classic trait of this course.

[Tom Huckaby]

Jon, I'm working on a theory about the state of Golf in America. It begins with the self interested not liking anything that would identify one's deeper character. If that ain't the Southland, nothing is.

Hey, my parents and most of my relatives are SoCals.  Easy there, pal.

The fact that you're correct in general has no bearing on this.

 

BTW Jon - that last post to Ryan was absolutely classic.  I love the "PV snob" part.  LOL!

[rjsimper]

Can someone share the Hogan story for those of us who weren't alive for it?

Spaulding - if you like the under-the-radar and are a fan of Victoria, try and get yourself to Redlands CC.

[Jon Spaulding]

Jon, I'm working on a theory about the state of Golf in America. It begins with the self interested not liking anything that would identify one's deeper character. If that ain't the Southland, nothing is.

Fairly accurate; once applied to the whole country you'll get an endorsement on my end

[Matt Bosela]

Great photos - thank you very much.

And the poster above was right - I was in LA last year and I regret not getting out to see Wilshire. 

[Jon Spaulding]

Can someone share the Hogan story for those of us who weren't alive for it?

Spaulding - if you like the under-the-radar and are a fan of Victoria, try and get yourself to Redlands CC.

On 9, the caddie says, aim at the sign on the hotel....Hogan says..."which letter". The sign is still there and you can see it in the right-center of the fairway in a couple of the photos here.

I will be playing RCC as time permits; just not here in the next few months unless they allow boardshorts and no shirt

[John Mayhugh]

Jon,
These are great pictures.  I really enjoyed the ninth hole, especially the tee shot and city backdrop.  There seem to be a lot of fun holes. 

Southern California has some awesome golf.  At least that's what I hear.

[Jon Spaulding]

Jon,
These are great pictures.  I really enjoyed the ninth hole, especially the tee shot and city backdrop.  There seem to be a lot of fun holes. 

Southern California has some awesome golf.  At least that's what I hear.

There is some fantastic golf down this way. Unfortunately, knowing that is solely a function of access, as our public arena is very weak....an oft-covered topic save a handful of courses.

Many of our quasi-classics have been disfigured or left to rot.....which is unfortunate because it creates a circular argument within the public arena, preventing us from having a decent number of choices (other than driving thru LA to Moorpark ).

I simply pray before bedtime that a single municipality will get the cojones to restore one of their Bell Sr. courses...which IMO would start something real positive in the local area. The only hope I have is that many of our older cities are on a "preservation/restoration kick" at the moment in response to some of the horrid-strip mall towns that have been built in the last 25 years, and the realization that dozing the old hardware store to put in a Home Depot might have been a bad idea. A torch-carrier for the GCA movement, independently wealthy, would be of great service at this time.

[DMoriarty]

Jon,

Thanks for posting the photographs.  I've played the course a few times and always found it to be great fun.

One of the reasons I don't think it gets more credit is it is not considered long enough or hard enough by those who judge courses this way.  But I am sure most the people who don't think it is long enough drive the ball about 50 yards short of where you do, and it seems you managed to have fun. Go figure.

One hole you did not mention that I thought was very good was the third, a short par 4 with something of an original cape concept, with the green jutting right and the creek guarding the back and sides.   I had heard that some of the changes might have messed it up a bit, but I hope it is still there.   

As for the recent work, Adam mentions it was Davis Love's people and I too think this was the case, probably around 8 or 9 years ago.  My understanding is that they did quite a bit of work on the bunkers.  Unfortunately I have not played the course since before this work was done.     

[Bart Bradley]

Jon:

Excellent pictures and descriptions...thanks for taking the time to post.  Well done.

Bart