Is lowering tees,

[jeffwarne]

If one foot of elevation makes one the ball go one yard further, many of the holes at The Bridge would be playing in negative yards

No way that formula's right

[Jeremy_Glenn.]

The formula is 3 feet in elevation = 1 yard (so basically a 1:1 ratio).

So off a 30-foot high tee, you drop down one club.

[Mike Golden]

Mike Golden,

IF:
The lower the tee, the lower the angle of descent.
The higher the tee, the greater the angle of descent.

Wouldn't that imply that the ball would go farther from lowered tees ?

that would be true except from a higher tee the ball has further to drop to reach the ground so there is extra distance that way.  Jeff's comments are also excellent in this regard and Jeremy' rule of thumb matches the science.  I'm sure there is a statistically valid test that has been run on this, it's just a matter of finding the source information.

[Kalen Braley]

Come on peeps..

This stuff is easy.  Its all right here: 

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/traj.html

[Peter Wagner]

Come on peeps..

This stuff is easy.  Its all right here: 

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/traj.html

Kalen,

You're right, it's just basic motion equations, duh, it was right there in front of us!
By assuming an initial velocity of 140 mph (rough ball velocity of a 105 mph driver swing) and a ball launch of a driver of say 20 degrees then the formula yields:

10 feet of elevation change = 26 feet of distance change (about 8 yards)

So, lowering a tee by 1 foot would effectively lengthen the hole by about 1 yard.

- Peter

[Kalen Braley]

Peter,

Sounds about right to me!!!   

[Patrick_Mucci]

If it's a 1 to 1 or a 1 to 3 ratio, then, it would seem that lowering the tee would make sense if, either degrees of blindness resulted, or it would make the golfer more unsure of himself, with the loss of distance being the icing on the cake.

Kelly Blake Moran,

I would think that modern courses are more prone to have irrigation heads within the confines of the teeing area.  It's certainly a substantive consideration.

[John Moore II]

Come on peeps..

This stuff is easy.  Its all right here: 

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/traj.html

Kalen,

You're right, it's just basic motion equations, duh, it was right there in front of us!
By assuming an initial velocity of 140 mph (rough ball velocity of a 105 mph driver swing) and a ball launch of a driver of say 20 degrees then the formula yields:

10 feet of elevation change = 26 feet of distance change (about 8 yards)

So, lowering a tee by 1 foot would effectively lengthen the hole by about 1 yard.

- Peter

Who launches a golf ball at 20 degrees? No one I know of, thats insanely high, make it more like 10-12 degrees, thats an average launch angle for players. Plus, if you used the ballistic trajectory formula, the number is way wrong. Golf balls do not travel in a ballistic manner. With the round ball and dimples, air friction cuts down on distances. Resistance to air is not included in that formula. Golf balls behave aerodynamically, so far as I know, with dimples providing lift and drag; add those two to the calculations.

[Patrick_Mucci]

JKM,

Look at a right angle (90*)
Bisect it (45*)
Bisect it (27.5*)
Bisect it ( 13.75*)

Examine that angle of 13.75 degrees.

Do you really think that's the trajectory for most drives ?

If someone uses an 8.5*, 9.5* or 10.5* driver and hits the ball with the club traveling perfectly parallel to the ground, the launch angles would be
8.5*, 9.5* and 10.5*.

If they hit the ball on the upswing, which is what we're told is the preferable clubhead path, you would add that angle of attack to the face angle of the driver to arrive at the launch angle.

I'd be willing to bet it's greater than 10* to 12*

[John Moore II]

Pat--I, personally, launch at a little more than 12 degrees. Most tour guys launch at 10-13 degrees, Bubba Watson has the highest launch angle out there and his is around 16. 17 degrees with about 1700 rpm is the perfect launch conditions for a golf ball, that will yield the most distance.
--You also fail to take into consideration that a 10.5* driver is not 10.5* at every point on the face, unlike with an iron. When you hit the ball high on the face, which is the part of the face that provides the highest launch angle with the least spin (closer to ideal) the loft angle is greater than 10.5* (or whatever the stamped loft is). You also fail to take into consideration the spin of the golf ball, which causes the ball to launch higher than the face angle as well.
--Go to a clubfitter and get tested on a launch monitor, if your driver launch angle is greater than 15 degrees, much less 20 degrees, I'll kiss every cow's ass in Texas.

[jefffraim]

Tom may be interested in this. The next step at Yeamans Hall is to lower some of the tee boxes. They are lowering and moving back #11 and #12. There are many holes (#5) that would play "longer" if the tees were on the ground. Many old photos show the tees were lower.

[TEPaul]

JimN and TomD:

I've always heard a foot in vertical dimension equates to two yards in distance. I've heard that from a number of sources but I certainly have no way of all of testing the accuracy of it.

Pat:

While I think lowering tees might have a bit to do with distance, what I really like about it is the nuances it puts on visibility and the concomitant effect on pyschology of shotmaking. A great example is obviously some of those natural grade tees at Garden City GC.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat--I, personally, launch at a little more than 12 degrees.

Most tour guys launch at 10-13 degrees, Bubba Watson has the highest launch angle out there and his is around 16. 17 degrees with about 1700 rpm is the perfect launch conditions for a golf ball, that will yield the most distance.

For many years most guys on tour were playing with 6*, 7* and 8* drivers.
[/color]

--You also fail to take into consideration that a 10.5* driver is not 10.5* at every point on the face, unlike with an iron.

Bulge and roll in metal drivers aren't anywhere near what they are in Persimmon drivers.  The increased angle at the top and bottom of the driver are deliberate as they're meant to compensate for mis-hits, in the event that the golfer comes into the ball too deep or too shallow.

The deviations from the specified angle at the top and bottom of the club are minimal, and, they're so close to the perimeter of the club that any ball hit there would be a mis-hit.  The myth about hitting the ball higher on the clubface to take advantage of an improved launch angle is the result of someone not having the right angled driver in the first place.

Just take a note pad and place it on the face of a driver and you'll see that the margins are so slim that it makes hitting the ball that high on the face an unwise decision.

When you hit the ball high on the face, which is the part of the face that provides the highest launch angle with the least spin (closer to ideal) the loft angle is greater than 10.5* (or whatever the stamped loft is).
That's also a mis-hit shot, the same corrective result comes from a ball being hit on the bottom of the club face.

You also fail to take into consideration the spin of the golf ball, which causes the ball to launch higher than the face angle as well.

I don't believe that's true.
Spin is imparted on the ball as it comes off the clubface, but, that doesn't change the launch angle at impact.[/color]

--Go to a clubfitter and get tested on a launch monitor, if your driver launch angle is greater than 15 degrees, much less 20 degrees, I'll kiss every cow's ass in Texas.

Take that right angle, divide it in half and then divide that result in thirds.
That's a 15* angle

In preparation for your task, I'd suggest that you go to Costco and buy a lifetime supply of Chap-Stick. [/color]

[John Moore II]

Pat--You are correct, tour guys used to use 6* drivers, it was the only way with very high spinning balls to keep the ball from balooning. Something that needs to be said about drivers is the the sweet spot on a driver is not on the center of the face, there is more mass above the middle of the head than below, leading the sweet spot to be higher on the face. Balls hit high launch higher and with less spin and balls hit in the middle; balls hit lower launch lower with more spin. I would also bet the the bulge and roll on a metal wood is about 1 degree.
--Again, you don't launch the ball at 15 degrees, IF you do, you need to be fitted for a driver and ball, as your current set-up is likely not correct. 15 degree launch angle is fine, as long as you get less than 2000 rpm spin, otherwise, its harmful. BTW, I won't need the chapstick.