Golfweeks Best Munis

[Craig Van Egmond]

Anybody see this? A list for us public golfer..

http://www.golfweek.com/lifestyles/features/story/golfweeks-best-municipal


No surprise who is #1, Chambers Bays comes in at #2. 

Congrats to Jeff Brauer at #24 for Sand Creek Station, a fine course at a bargain price.

They even slipped one Oklahoma course in there, Chickasaw Pointe, by Randy Heckenkemper. A good course, that recently was sold to a private org so it won't be eligible next time around.

[Tony_Chapman]

I assume the definition of "muni" is that it is somehow city owned or operated -- which brings me to the TPC Scottsdale question. I thought those were owned by the PGA Tour?

Sand Creek is awesome, Jeff did some real fun stuff out there. A Road Hole, a Mae West, a sideways Biarritz. Cool stuff.

[Matt_Ward]

Craig, et al:

There were a few courses left out of the mix -- Hominy Hill in Colts Neck is a RTJ design that has hosted the US Public Links -- both for men and women, one of the very few that can say such a thing.

The Monmouth County (NJ) layout is easily beyond the likes of a number of the courses mentioned.

In fact, you could also mention the likes of The Knoll West - located in Parsippany, NJ -- the layout started as a private club and was designed by Charles "steam shovel" Banks. Now a muni-operated layout the course has plenty to offer now even though George Bahto is busy trying to make improvements to it.

[Brad Klein]

TPC Scottsdale is co-owned by the city of Scottsdale.

[Tom_Doak]

Brad:

I saw the list, and was surprised to see that you didn't put some kind of ceiling on the green fees a "muni" could charge and still be eligible.

I know some are city-funded, but it's hard to imagine that courses which charge $100+ green fees are considered "munis" by the people in their town.

[Phil_the_Author]

Brad,

It is wonderful to see bethpage finally getting the credit it deserves... Bethpage Red that is!

[Dan Herrmann]

Darn - the muni I grew up on, Sheridan Park, in Tonawanda NY (Buffalo) is missing!   Brad - how could you have missed it

[Brad Klein]

That Buffalo course isn't "missing," it just didn't make the top-30. Nor did about 100 others.

Tom, a muni is characterized by its administrative structure, not its green fee. As long as the residents of the jurisdiction enjoy a favorable rate, whatever that rate is, over non-residents, it's a muni.

[M. Shea Sweeney]

Does a muni stop being a muni when the price exceeds a certain price?

[Brad Klein]

No more so than does a private course stop being private when it gets above $100,000 initiation fee or a resort exceed $247 green fee. The category is what counts, and while there are expensive (Chambers Bay) and inexpensive (Wilmingon GC, N.C.) munis, both are munis.

[M. Shea Sweeney]

Brad Klein--

I have to disagree. Munis are munis. Thye should be affordable for the municipal golfer.

Wouldn't you say that a private club become more private as the price increases?

[Ryan Farrow]

I tend to agree with other, this muni list is not really following the spirit of the rule, which is affordability. Plus a top 30 muni list w/o Papago is a crying shame.

[David Lott]

By Brad's definition, The Old Course is a muni.

Which is, I think, the correct category--despite the high price (for some).

San Francisco is a lot more expensive than Omaha, but they are both cities.

[John_Conley]

Many of the high green-fee municipals are pretty inexpensive for residents.  Which have a sky-high resident rate?  They serve THEIR residents, not people from other areas.

[David Stamm]

Some raters need to get out to Soule Park. I suspect it could more than hold it's own against quite a few of the courses on this list.

[John Moore II]

While I have not played any of these courses, I must say I am surprised to not see Bryan Park (Champions) or Tanglewood Park (Championship) on the list. I wonder if they do not fit the criteria since BP is now managed by Pinnacle Golf and Tanglewood is a park with only flat rate fees?

[W.H. Cosgrove]

Brad Klein--

I have to disagree. Munis are munis. Thye should be affordable for the municipal golfer.

Wouldn't you say that a private club become more private as the price increases?

While I think many of us would suggest that the traditional role of a 'muni' is to supply affordable recreation to the taxpayer, there is a new breed of muni with a broader position in the local politicians mind. 

After having sat through numerous hearings, meetings, press conferences and watching Chambers construction, it became clear that Chambers was built for reasons other than recreation for local players. The reasons for its construction were 1)environmental 2) developmental 3) tourism.  There are simply too many local low cost options to get locals out more than a few times at high season rates. 

The GW list can't illuminate all of the reasons governments do things.  That isn't its place.  The discussion we had in Tacoma, was whether it is the place of local government to risk $20+ million on a facility that solved other issues.  Some of us supported the idea that the less expensive alternative by another architect would have solved the other issues at a lower risk than the RT Jones II course and site of the 2015 US Open. 

Shows you what some of Know  

Chambers is nonetheless a muni. 

[Adam Clayman]

How about La Quinta's 195 Million dollar project?
 

[Dan Herrmann]

Brad - I was kidding about Sheridan.  It was great fun growing up and for $75/year (in 1980) was an amazing deal.

[David Stamm]

How about La Quinta's 195 Million dollar project?
 

Or The Crossings at Carlsbad's $75 mill project....

[Kalen Braley]

Brad,

Great to see both Indian Canyon and the Hideout on there...both very good tracks and very deserving.

I was surprised to see WingPointe on there in SLC.  Its a fun track and it speaks volumes for golf in this area, but there are easily 4-5 munis in the general area that are nicer.  However I will recommed if you have a layover in SLC airport to go give it a go!!

[Garland Bayley]

..
Congrats to Jeff Brauer at #24 for Sand Creek Station, a fine course at a bargain price.
...

Not to mention Forrest who aced him out at #22, The Hideout. I paid $19 there.

[PCCraig]

Way to go Thunderhawk!!!

I have been singing the praises of it since it opened. And four spots behind Torrey? Wow.

Its a cool place to play and mornings before 8 walking it is only $40 or so.

[J Sadowsky]

Montauk Downs is too low.  A lot of courses that deserve to be on that list - Hominy Hill, Breckenridge, Greystone (Baltimore, MD) - are absent.  I'd also include McCoullough's Emerald Links (despite its kitcshiness),  Also, isn't there supposed to be a steller municipal in Texas?  And there are tons of great Ross municipals littering the southeast US, but I'll let others who know that bring those up.

An interesting idea, but I doubt its a solid start just yet.

[J Sadowsky]

Postscript - Congrads to Lorton/Fairfax County for Laurel Hill, which is a truly deserving muni (albiet at $90 a pop).  A great minimalist design by a lesser known architect (Bill Love), and one of my favorite places to play in the area.