Pat:
The Knoll is not upgraded and frankly is more of a work-in-progress situation. I love the course but I don't rate my favorites based on what they might be. I rate on what they are now. Big difference to me. When the work of George Bahto is completed the full glory of The Knoll / West will be restored. At that time it will be back on my radar screen. However, it would be a major disservice to the other courses that have completed work and done well in doing it.
In regards to your comments on Deepdale v Westhampton -- that's a question of tastes. I prefer the Manhasset layout. I also see the LI design from Dick Wilson being ahead of Hackensack -- Pat, keep in mind, some courses will invariably fall out of the top 50 -- not just mine but yours or anyone else's for that matter. I am a big fan of Banks work and my listign does include several of them. Just not Hackensack for a top 50 inclusion.
Tom MacWood:
Glad to see you are still alive and participating here. Cuople of quick comments -- your mentioning of Inwood is a good one but the finished work at Seawane is worth just a bit more to me than it's rival nearby. If history alone were the criteria then Inwood would be there after hosting both the US Open and PGA. Stephen Kay's work at Seawane is well done and has brought back to life this gem in Hewlett Harbor.
In regards to Yale -- the turf conditions have improved but not so dramatically to my liking. Let me also point out there are a few holes on the inward nine at Yale that I find to be rather pedestrian when compared to the others.
You mentioned Maidstone and I find the place to be vastly overrated in various national polls. Here is a layout that benefits in having big time neighbors nearby -- e.g. SH, NGLA, Sebonack, etc, etc. I don't see the opening and closing holes as compelling architecture of the highest order and although I am a huge fan of the 9th and 14th holes I see much of Maidstone as being a little short of consistent and compelling architecture throughout the round.
Let's talk about Forsgate / Banks shall we. Don't know if you have played it recently but the layout has been significantly upgraded through the work of its new ownership group. All of the four par-3's are gems -- only Pine Valley quartet exceeds them IMHO and the overall upgrading of turf and day-to-day maintenance practices have truly elevated what Banks originally created. Ditto the fantastic restoration of the Biarritz hole at #17.
Don't have issue with St. George and / or Huntington and it's possible that one or both could crack through the remaining few spots at the rear of the list.
SPDB:
You say Tuxedo is dubious - what about the opening series of holes to begin the round? RTJ is often downgraded on GCA for a host of reasons -- I find his work at Tuxedo to be quite pleasant and the architecture engaging without being so utterly predictable as so many of his other designs.
Also, if you think Pine Barrens can make a top 50 metro NYC listing then you need to really see Ballyowen if public is your push. I didn't "desperately desire" to want to add another public layout because as I said at the outset the depth of private layouts in the overall region is likely the strongest in the nation.
We agree to disagree about Round Hill -- and you need to play / see what's been done at Wee Burn.
Last thing -- Wykagyl has benefited immensely from the C&C involvement. The layout was always there but the profusion of trees and the narrow nature of too many holes had in my mind really constricted the architectural qualities that were always there. If you have not been there recently by all means put it on your calendar.
Jim F:
Mansion Ridge is a nicely done daily fee layout from Team Nicklaus. If your friend is raving about it then I have to ask how many other top public courses within the greater NYC metro area has he played. Is it better than Ballyowen -- which I see as North Jersey's best public course? No. Is Mansion Ridge better than Centennial -- the upscale layout directly across the Hudson in Carmel? No. Is it better than what Stephen Kay did with The Links at Unionvale? No.
Mansion Ridge is built on a hilly site -- and there are a few holes of note -- the concluding hole, a 480+ par-4, brings you back to the clubhouse in fine fashion. Yet, the green designs are rather matter-of-fact save for a few.
If I created a top 50 public listing for the same region there's no doubt Mansion Ridge would be on it. It's likely placement might challenge for a top 10 position but I would need to really think about that before saying so conclusively.