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Wade Whitehead

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Establishing a Fair Playoff
« on: June 18, 2008, 10:07:28 AM »
Discussion over the Tiger-Rocco playoff has got me thinking.

Assuming that a four-hole aggregate playoff (a la Open Championship) is preferable to sudden death and/or a fifth round (which is, I know, debatable):

Ideally, wouldn't the four holes represent four different sorts of challenges, rather than just four contiguous or easy-to-televise holes?  Wouldn't the best test incorporate a mix of direction, distance, and type?  Perhaps a par three, two very different par fours, and a par five would identify the better/best remaining player, instead of whatever holes happen to close the golf course (or fit a routing convenient for spectating).

I'm suggesting that, given a four-hole playoff, the best case would involve players hitting from varying distances, with different clubs, and perhaps being asked to play different shots.  This might mean criss-crossing the golf course a bit to achieve the proper mix of holes.

Does anyone with better knowledge of Torrey Pines have a suggestion for four specific holes that would produce the most well-rounded (architecturally speaking, at least) playoff?  How about ANGC?

Just curious.

WW
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Dan Herrmann

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Re: Establishing a Fair Playoff
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2008, 10:11:10 AM »
Removed... 
« Last Edit: June 18, 2008, 10:22:32 AM by Dan Herrmann »
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Wade Whitehead

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Re: Establishing a Fair Playoff
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2008, 10:16:24 AM »
Dan: Sorry if this seems off topic.  I'm looking for an architectural perspective on the playoff suggestion.  WW
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Dan Herrmann

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Re: Establishing a Fair Playoff
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2008, 10:20:24 AM »
WW - You're right -  Point well taken.

How about 3, 4, 13 and 18? 

For Augusta, 1, 9, 10, 12, and 18 would be a decent loop.   
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Dan Herrmann

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Re: Establishing a Fair Playoff
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2008, 10:23:45 AM »
Quote from: Dan Herrmann on June 18, 2008, 10:20:24 AM
WW - You're right -  Point well taken.

How about 3, 4, 13 and 18?   Nice mixture of par 3, 4, and 5 with some risk-reward.  I know 4 is a mile away from 13, but other than that....

For Augusta, 1, 9, 10, 12, and 18 would be a decent loop.   Tough to get from 12 to 18, though.
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Matt Kardash

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Re: Establishing a Fair Playoff
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2008, 11:11:30 AM »
The playoff at Whistling straits had a great mix of holes, i thought. Short par 4 10th. The epic par 3 17th, and the brutish par 4 18th.
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David Kelly

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Re: Establishing a Fair Playoff
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2008, 12:12:37 PM »
For the Masters I think you would have to play 10, 11, 12, 13.  It includes different tests, it has 4 great holes, and its Amen Corner.  This is a case where four continuous holes realy works.

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Carl Rogers

Re: Establishing a Fair Playoff
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2008, 12:12:57 PM »
At the Masters, the drama of a 4 hole playoff starting at 10 and ending at 13 would be epic .... then if necessary continue sudden death at 14  ... then 15
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Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Establishing a Fair Playoff
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2008, 12:53:18 PM »
Its easier to decide now that most tourneys have expanded TV coverage.  In the 1970's, it would have had to have been 15-18 if anyone wanted to see it.

I agree in principle that there ought to be a mix of holes so as not to favor, say, a long hitter.  On the other hand, the playoff participants seemingly have conquered the course pretty well and figure to continue doing so.  So, practical considerations of getting the gallery and players there probably prevail.

And, whose to say that driveable four par at Torrey favored the layup or the guy who tries to drive the green.  It depends on how they hit the shots, no?
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Jim Nugent

Re: Establishing a Fair Playoff
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2008, 01:13:50 PM »
Quote from: David Kelly on June 18, 2008, 12:12:37 PM
For the Masters I think you would have to play 10, 11, 12, 13.  It includes different tests, it has 4 great holes, and its Amen Corner.  This is a case where four continuous holes realy works.



The Masters used to start on 10.  By 2005, they started on 18.  I wonder why/when they changed.
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John Moore II

Re: Establishing a Fair Playoff
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2008, 09:14:13 PM »
Jim-I would say they changed for crowd considerations. Otherwise, the fans have to move over to 10, which as I seem to recall has very little space around the green for fans.

-You can't do the playoff on holes that aren't close together, its simply not practical. You would have to shuttle players from one hole to the next, fans would have to run from place to place, etc.

-I think holes 1 through 4 at Pine Needles would make a great playoff. But other than there and Augusta, I can't think of another stretch of holes that have one of each par that start out near to the clubhouse and such.
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Mike Bowline

Re: Establishing a Fair Playoff
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2008, 10:17:11 PM »
Rocco probably took a long, deep breath when he learned they would go to #7 to start the playoff, vs. #1. Rocco put it in the left FW bunker three straight times. Something about that hole just didn't fit his eye (or his right-to-left ball flight). Conversely, Tiger had owned #7 all week, and fared quite poorly on #1 all week.
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