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Mike_Cirba

Re: An Open, Public Plea to Ran & Ben
« Reply #75 on: June 15, 2008, 01:01:37 AM »
John,

Give me a friggin break, John.

For some stupid reason I love you, you dumb f*(k.

Just get off my back, and I'll remove my gut reactions to what I believe you posted.

John Kavanaugh

Re: An Open, Public Plea to Ran & Ben
« Reply #76 on: June 15, 2008, 01:02:41 AM »
Don't do it for me because I don't deserve it.  Do it for Wexler and Lynn.

Mike_Cirba

Re: An Open, Public Plea to Ran & Ben
« Reply #77 on: June 15, 2008, 01:06:55 AM »
Don't do it for me because I don't deserve it.  Do it for Wexler and Lynn.

Howzabout I do it in the spirt of what Mike Young posted earlier today, and in the spirit of both of us agreeing about Torrey Pines?

Deal??

Let's just move on, John...I'm tired of fighting stupid fights here.

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Open, Public Plea to Ran & Ben
« Reply #78 on: June 15, 2008, 08:15:07 AM »
Let the record show that, in the Wexler thread, Mr. Kavanaugh said -- of the unnamed Irish golf writer cited in that thread:

"This is also the same guy who said he considered medical school before becoming a golf writer.  Just another quasi-intelectual douche."

Since the only other writer under discussion was Mr. Wexler, it's understandable that someone would incorrectly think that Mr. Kavanaugh's "another" was meant to incorporate Mr. Wexler.

"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Open, Public Plea to Ran & Ben
« Reply #79 on: June 15, 2008, 08:49:28 AM »
Let the record show that, in the Wexler thread, Mr. Kavanaugh said -- of the unnamed Irish golf writer cited in that thread:

"This is also the same guy who said he considered medical school before becoming a golf writer.  Just another quasi-intelectual douche."

Since the only other writer under discussion was Mr. Wexler, it's understandable that someone would incorrectly think that Mr. Kavanaugh's "another" was meant to incorporate Mr. Wexler.



I'm probably wrong, but I think John was referring to Peter Kessler, as his show on XM was the forum for said discussion.

John Kavanaugh

Re: An Open, Public Plea to Ran & Ben
« Reply #80 on: June 15, 2008, 09:30:56 AM »
I am not a fan of Kessler but I was talking about the Irish writer on XM 146 who was praising the current Augusta and slamming Torrey.   It doesn't hurt that he like so many others have now been proven wrong.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Open, Public Plea to Ran & Ben
« Reply #81 on: June 16, 2008, 08:26:51 AM »
John is correct on the XM quote.  I'm the one that originally referred to the XM146 interview, and John responded correctly.   I had originally misunderstood Jaka's POV.

TEPaul

Re: An Open, Public Plea to Ran & Ben
« Reply #82 on: June 16, 2008, 10:08:34 AM »
Jeff Brauer and Grant Saunders:

Whatever you two, and I guess John Kavanaugh, don't like on this website why don't you do something pretty simple like not read it? There are plenty of threads on this website that don't have anything to do with Merion, and if you don't think so why don't you start some that interest you? As far as you, Grant Saunders, calling us who continue to discuss Merion a bunch of idiots, well----F... you too!

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Open, Public Plea to Ran & Ben
« Reply #83 on: June 16, 2008, 10:32:10 AM »
TePaul,

I love this website, although my intererst waxes and wanes from time to time. I also loved the idea of the Merion threads.

Lastly, I generally love reading your posts.  You do have a lot of knowledge.  My problem is limited to the length and tone of the Merion threads, and yes, I have stopped reading, or at least have only been perusing.  I AM ready for other topics.

I have always said both the strength and weakness of this website is that threads can go anywhere, kind of like my tee shots!  As Forrest Gump might say, reading this site is like a box of chocolates - you never know what you are gonna get.......
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

TEPaul

Re: An Open, Public Plea to Ran & Ben
« Reply #84 on: June 16, 2008, 10:49:28 AM »
JeffB:

I think the interest of all of us on here waxes and wanes. That's to be expected. Some of us obviously have a very intense interest in Merion and the details of its history. If others don't my only suggestion is to avoid the Merion threads, not complain about them if there someone has no interest in the subject.

I'm very sorry they have been so long and so drawn out. Obviously us here have a position on the correct and historical realities of the architectural details of the course. To us our position is pretty much beyond question and it is backed up by the documemtary facts available at Merion. Others obviously don't see it that way and just continue to torture the meaning of that material, continue to torture events and chronologies, in our opinion.

I really don't think the other side does this because they are interested in the true history of Merion, they do it for their own agendas that don't have much to do with Merion. Thankfully, there are only two of them that I can see.

The only other thing is it's pretty clear to see this argument drags on because many have less than complete information including those two. They demand everything we have but they will just have to understand they can't have it all now for reasons that are beyond our control right now which are practical reasons.

Anyone can have my opinions on what I know but if they only want my opinion if I back it up with documentation, then they can just wait, as far as I'm concerned.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Open, Public Plea to Ran & Ben
« Reply #85 on: June 16, 2008, 11:22:12 AM »
TePaul,

I think my problem (no doubt shared by others) is that we ARE interested in Merion, its evolution, etc.  If I was smart, I would have never posted on any of those threads, because I really don't know much, etc.  But, I was interested.

I am kind of surprised at how many calls for "academic rigor" have been made here.  Previously, it was a discussion group and all knew it was mostly opinions, with occaisonal links posted to old mags and pix, as was done this morning to Golf Illustrated through the USGA.  For me, those were the best parts of the recent discussions - I can look at the pix and decide for myself what they mean.  (For the record, I do see some CBM, albeit not perfect copies in the original old greens.....3 is called a Redan and 9 looked more of something like a Biarritz in the early photo than it does now, for example)

If nothing else, I suppose these threads may redefine what can be posted under an "In my opinion" piece here.  Even the internet has to grow up at some point!

That said, I never got the impression that DM or TomMac had anything but respect for Merion, as do I.  I think they truly believe that CBM should get more credit, while you don't.  But, "Agenda" is a funny word.  A democrat will say a Republican has an "agenda" whereas their proposals are nothing but "what's best for America."  And, vice versa.

Both sides, IMHO, have "tortured", parsed and interpreted (and misinterpreted) the meaning of different writers and their words.  Having read most of these threads, its clear that there are some variances in the contemporary record and it seems to be a matter of who do you believe.  I doubt any of them thought there would be an internet argument a century or so later when they wrote those words!

I agree with you that the familarity we have among us on this web site can be misleading. If you in "real life" have some documents that Merion or others say you should keep to yourself, you must do that.  No one here has any "right" of any sort to them, even if they have the interest.

Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Open, Public Plea to Ran & Ben
« Reply #86 on: June 16, 2008, 12:04:10 PM »



About forty five years ago about this time in June I was at that famous deb party of Fernanda Wanamaker Wetherill's in Southampton, Long Island. We were all standing around and Fernanda's brother Dring,  who really was a pretty strange dude, just happened to say to the group:



Who names their children Fernanda and Dring?

John Kavanaugh

Re: An Open, Public Plea to Ran & Ben
« Reply #87 on: June 16, 2008, 12:06:15 PM »
Cousins.

TEPaul

Re: An Open, Public Plea to Ran & Ben
« Reply #88 on: June 16, 2008, 12:12:09 PM »
"Who names their children Fernanda and Dring?"


Apparently Mr. and Mrs. Wetherill do.  ;)

Google the name Fernanda Wanamaker Wetherill and read about the first thing that comes up enititled "The House of Munn, The First Family of Palm Beach".

I didn't realize it but that name Fernanda has quite a history in some extended families.

The Fernanda I knew who had that famous party in Southampton back around 1963 we just always called Fern.

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Open, Public Plea to Ran & Ben
« Reply #89 on: June 16, 2008, 12:41:22 PM »
"Who names their children Fernanda and Dring?"


Apparently Mr. and Mrs. Wetherill do.  ;)

Google the name Fernanda Wanamaker Wetherill and read about the first thing that comes up enititled "The House of Munn, The First Family of Palm Beach".

I didn't realize it but that name Fernanda has quite a history in some extended families.

The Fernanda I knew who had that famous party in Southampton back around 1963 we just always called Fern.

OK,I'll give you Fernanda.But,Dring?

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Open, Public Plea to Ran & Ben
« Reply #90 on: June 16, 2008, 01:02:11 PM »
OK,I'll give you Fernanda.But,Dring?

Maybe the delivery was terribly difficult. A GRIND. And the parents didn't care for the name GRIND, so they gave the kid an anagram: DRING.

I knew a women whose husband was named "Derf." His parents were planning on "Fred" -- but the lad had the great misfortune to show up as a breech presentation.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Open, Public Plea to Ran & Ben
« Reply #91 on: June 17, 2008, 11:05:27 PM »
I long ago learned a valuable lesson from dealing with the three people who have threatened to sue me; don't return their calls, don't respond to their emails; don't respond to their posts; and don't play golf with them. I'd extend the lesson to drunken boors, even clever ones. Some people might mistake them for eloquent, or observant, or satirical. I just think they are sociopathic frat boys who are incapable of actual conversation and are out simply to bully and hurt.

The principle that works best is ignoring them and ostracizing them. If that doesn't work, the police are a back-up. Too bad in the case of the GCA the police have decided to lay down their arms. Which means that if enough people don't ignore and ostracize, the bullies take over and claim the town square. In which case I'm happy to travel elsewhere. A version of that is happening here.
Seconded. But by no means should anything be removed from the site. Think of this as the not only the town hall, but the public stockade.
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

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