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Mike Sweeney

Monday's Setup
« on: June 15, 2008, 09:03:09 PM »
Is the playoff setup (pins and tees) set before the championship?

I assume it is, otherwise they could set up a short course with draw pins to help out Rocco.
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Matt_Cohn

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Re: Monday's Setup
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2008, 09:05:20 PM »
Good point - Monday's setup will play a *huge* role in determining the champion.
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Doug Ralston

Re: Monday's Setup
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2008, 09:13:49 PM »
A short course favors Tiger, not Rocco. With it this long, Tiger overuses the driver. Let it be short, and Hoylake will be repeated. I think if Tiger had not had his driver today, he would have won by 3-5 shorts already.

Doug
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Jim Sweeney

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Re: Monday's Setup
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2008, 09:17:38 PM »
The set up is not pre determined any more than the daily set up is pre determined. Possible hole locations are located and charted, tee locations the same; however, weather conditions, wear patterns on the greens, and other considerations will factor in the final set up decisions. No way the USGA intentionally sets up the course to favor one player or another, though ultimately one player or the other may be impacted more favorably.
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David_Elvins

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Re: Monday's Setup
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2008, 09:19:38 PM »
Quote from: Doug Ralston on June 15, 2008, 09:13:49 PM
A short course favors Tiger, not Rocco. With it this long, Tiger overuses the driver. Let it be short, and Hoylake will be repeated. I think if Tiger had not had his driver today, he would have won by 3-5 shorts already.

Doug

Doug,

I think today was short (about 400 yards shorter than the tips).

With all the fiddling with the set up, it is definetly a great point made by Mike.  Another reason why great courses shouldn't need over the top fiddling with set up to make them interesting.  
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John Moore II

Re: Monday's Setup
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2008, 09:41:00 PM »
I would love to see 14 play short like today, maybe with the pin in the front of the green, right in the neck. And play 13 from the shorter tees as well. Let them try to score. I hope they set it up to make for some type of drama, not like the last 18 hole USGA playoff in the 2006 Women's Open.

--Any bets on Tigers score on the first hole tomorrow??
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Brad Klein

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Re: Monday's Setup
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2008, 10:05:51 PM »
The course is maxed out at 7,643 yards on the scorecard but it never played within 150 yards of that and Sunday it was 363 yards shorter at 7,280. Interestingly, each day the average course score went down:

75.6 Thursday
75.0 Friday
74.4 Saturday
72.9 Sunday

The Monday playoff set up won't be announced until just before tee time, but I would expect a fairly modest mix of hole locations and teeing distances so as not to create any obvious bias. You can bet that if 13 is long 18 will be short, or vice-versa. But I wouldn't expect 14 to be driveable.
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Frank Pasquale

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Re: Monday's Setup
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2008, 10:08:52 PM »
Quote from: J. Kenneth Moore on June 15, 2008, 09:41:00 PM

--Any bets on Tigers score on the first hole tomorrow??

Please Tiger, hit a 3-wood on 1 tomorrow!
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Joe Bausch

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Re: Monday's Setup
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2008, 10:09:47 PM »
On TGC Brian Hewitt just reported that they plan on tomorrow's setup to play similar in the length to today.  And that the 14th will be kept short, but the 3rd will play from 190ish, and 18 will play about the same length as today.
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Wade Whitehead

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Re: Monday's Setup
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2008, 10:10:15 PM »
Quote from: Brad Klein on June 15, 2008, 10:05:51 PM
Interestingly, each day the average course score went down:

75.6 Thursday
75.0 Friday
74.4 Saturday
72.9 Sunday

Remember that Saturday and Sunday averages don't include the guys who missed the cut.  In general, average score drops on the weekend, if for no other reason.  Just something to consider.

WW
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Brad Klein

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Re: Monday's Setup
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2008, 10:56:42 PM »
WW,

I'm aware of that, but still, the falloff is considerabe, esp. 1.5 shots from Saturday to Sunday. There's no question they used easier hole locations and a shorter course.
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Peter Wagner

Re: Monday's Setup
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2008, 11:03:01 PM »
Quote from: FrankPasquale on June 15, 2008, 10:08:52 PM
Quote from: J. Kenneth Moore on June 15, 2008, 09:41:00 PM

--Any bets on Tigers score on the first hole tomorrow??

Please Tiger, hit a 3-wood on 1 tomorrow!

Jeez, how about just hitting a 5-iron?  #1 may have cost TW the Open!


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Jim Nugent

Re: Monday's Setup
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2008, 11:16:56 PM »
Did conditions get worse later in the day?  Guys tore the course up earlier on Sunday.  A whole bunch of scores in the 60's, with a 65.  But all the contenders 71 or higher.  Did the wind pick up, or was that due to pressure?     
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Martin Del Vecchio

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Re: Monday's Setup
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2008, 08:41:15 AM »
Geoff Shackelford has some info at http://www.golfdigest.com/golfworld/blogs/dateline/:

Quote
Third Hole
A front right hole location likely means using the back tee playing around 190 yards.

13th Hole
The hole is going back left, and the USGA is undecided on tee location. It'll either be on the up tee at 539 yards, or the 599 tee.

14th Hole
The hole location will be cut in the front left, not far from today's spot, allowing Davis to keep the tees at the 277-yard spot. Where he puts the markers is still up for debate, but Tiger's remarks make the tee placement a major decision.

16th Hole
The hole is going to be cut center right, so Davis will play the 225-yard right tee nearest No. 15 green.

18th Hole
The tees will remain at the 520-yard area that has been employed the last three days.
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Martin Del Vecchio

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Re: Monday's Setup
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2008, 08:48:20 AM »
Quote from: Doug Ralston on June 15, 2008, 09:13:49 PM
Let it be short, and Hoylake will be repeated.

I don't think so.  Tiger eschewed the driver at Hoylake because the ground was so fast and firm, and he had no control over where the ball would end up. 

The fairways at Torrey are somewhat firm, but nowhere near as firm as they were at Hoylake, or even at Oakmont last year.  So he isn't able to knock a 2-iron out there to 300 yards.
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rjsimper

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Re: Monday's Setup
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2008, 08:53:34 AM »
Quote from: Peter Wagner on June 15, 2008, 11:03:01 PM
Quote from: FrankPasquale on June 15, 2008, 10:08:52 PM
Quote from: J. Kenneth Moore on June 15, 2008, 09:41:00 PM

--Any bets on Tigers score on the first hole tomorrow??

Please Tiger, hit a 3-wood on 1 tomorrow!

Jeez, how about just hitting a 5-iron?  #1 may have cost TW the Open!




Maybe, or it may be responsible for getting him into a playoff - what the announcers are glossing over is that he made birdie on the hole on Friday, (his 10th of the day), with that great shot from the hardpan...catapulting him to his "back" nine 30.

If anything, for him it's the hole that both giveth and taketh away. 
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