Chicago Golf Course Analysis

[PCCraig]

Good Afternoon Everyone

While home sick from work today, I was fooling around on the CDGA website when I came across their alphabetical list of member clubs with corresponding yardage, rating, and slope. Out of curiosity, I sorted them a la Excel and came up with the 25 longest courses in Chicago, the 25 highest ratings, and the 25 highest slopes. Many of the usual Chicago suspects popped up, but some that I maybe wouldn’t have guessed.

According to my lists, Rich Harvest Links is tops on all fronts. I had the opportunity to play there approx. 5 years ago, but played it at around 6700-7000 yds. I remember it being tough, but according to the tips, it is on the toughness level of Pine Valley. Has anyone dared to play Rich Harvest from the tips? Would you consider length to be the key factor in high ratings and slope in this situation?

Also, has anyone had the chance to play Canyata? I had never heard of this course before this. When looking it up on the web, it looks pretty cool. Almost like an Illinois version of Shadow Creek.

Let me know what everyone thinks. Sorry about the formatting.

Longest Courses       
      
Club Name   Tee Set    Yards
      
 Rich Harvest Links
 Pro     7601
 Bon Vivant Country Club
 Black     7570
 Butler National GC
 Butler     7523
 Medinah CC - #3
 Gold     7508
 Bull Valley Golf Club
 Black     7319
 Red Tail Run GC
 Black     7309
 Canyata
 Gold     7266
 Kemper Lakes Golf Club
 Gold     7217
 White Eagle GC - Red To White
 Gold     7211
 Village Links Of Glen Ellyn
 Black     7208
 Olympia Fields CC - North Course
 Black     7205
 Conway Farms Golf Club
 Black     7198
 Crane Creek Golf Club
 Black     7183
 TPC Deere Run
 TPC     7183
 Cog Hill Golf & CC - #4
 Championship     7180
 Heritage Bluffs Public GC
 Gold     7171
 Panther Creek CC
 Gold     7171
 George W. Dunne National
 Gold     7170
 Geneva National GC - Palmer
 Black     7167
 Harborside Int. Golf Center - Starboard
 Tournament     7166
 Harborside Int. Golf Center - Port
 Tournament     7164
 The Glen Club
 Gold     7149
 Aldeen Golf Club
 Gold     7131
 Ironhorse Golf Club
 Black     7131
 Stone Creek Golf Club
 Black     7118












Highest Rating       
      
Club Name   Tee Set    Rating
      
 Rich Harvest Links
 Pro    78.5
 Butler National GC
 Butler    78.1
 Medinah CC - #3
 Gold    78.1
 Bull Valley Golf Club
 Black    77.2
 Bon Vivant Country Club
 Black    76.3
 Olympia Fields CC - North Course
 Black    76.3
 Canyata
 Gold    76.0
 Conway Farms Golf Club
 Black    75.8
 Dunes Club
 Pro    75.6
 Ivanhoe Club - Forest & Marsh
 Gold    75.6
 Cog Hill Golf & CC - #4
 Championship    75.4
 George W. Dunne National
 Gold    75.4
 TPC Deere Run
 TPC    75.3
 Flossmoor Country Club
 Blue    75.2
 Ivanhoe Club - Marsh & Prairie
 Gold    75.2
 Ivanhoe Club - Forest & Prairie
 Gold    75.2
 Kemper Lakes Golf Club
 Gold    75.2
 Bob O’Link Golf Club
 Championship    75.1
 Harborside Int. Golf Center - Port
 Tournament    75.1
 Crane Creek Golf Club
 Black    75.0
 Harborside Int. Golf Center - Starboard
 Tournament    75.0
 Oak Grove Golf Course
 Professional    75.0
 North Shore CC
 Black    74.9
 Point O’Woods Golf & CC
 Blue    74.9
 White Eagle GC - Red To White
 Gold    74.9




Highest Slope       
      
Club Name   Tee Set    Slope
      
 Rich Harvest Links
 Pro    153
 Butler National GC
 Butler    152
 Bull Valley Golf Club
 Black    151
 Medinah CC - #3
 Gold    151
 Ivanhoe Club - Marsh & Prairie
 Gold    150
 Olympia Fields CC - North Course
 Black    150
 Canyata
 Gold    149
 Conway Farms Golf Club
 Black    149
 Dunes Club
 Pro    149
 Ivanhoe Club - Forest & Prairie
 Gold    148
 Ivanhoe Club - Forest & Marsh
 Gold    147
 TPC Deere Run
 TPC    145
 Whittaker Woods Golf Community
 Black    144
 Butterfield CC - Blue/Red
 Back    143
 Kemper Lakes Golf Club
 Gold    143
 Cog Hill Golf & CC - #4
 Championship    142
 Flossmoor Country Club
 Blue    142
 Geneva Golf Club
 Black    142
 George W. Dunne National
 Gold    142
 Glen View Club
 Mach    142
 Oak Grove Golf Course
 Professional    142
 White Deer Run
 Black    142
 White Eagle GC - Blue To Red
 Gold    142
 Eagle Ridge Resort & Spa - The General
 4 Star    141
 Geneva National GC - Player
 Black    141

[K. Krahenbuhl]

I've played back at Rich Harvest and would say the length has a lot to do with it playing so difficult.  Other factors would be the trees (especially those overhanging on that stupid astroturf back box) and quite a bit of high rough and sand.

[PCCraig]

Considering in theory RH is harder than this week's venue at the US Open, would difficulty ever stop the USGA from coming there? I think I read somewhere that is was the owners 'dream' to one day host the Open. With other Chicago venues looking like a no go for the USGA in the near future, is this Chicago's shot to get the Open again?

[Jim Colton]

Take a whiff of Snead's Crotch (hole #3)...with a landing area about 10-yards in radius.



Here's another one of the astroturf hole...I can't wait to see what the ladies think about the course during this year's Solheim Cup.  It seems like an odd choice for match play.

[Mark Smolens]

Considering in theory RH is harder than this week's venue at the US Open, would difficulty ever stop the USGA from coming there? I think I read somewhere that is was the owners 'dream' to one day host the Open. With other Chicago venues looking like a no go for the USGA in the near future, is this Chicago's shot to get the Open again?

Don't see that there's enough room for an Open-sized gallery out there.  Fun course to play, but very quirky.

[Adam Clayman]

Appreciating the difference between difficulty and quality can never come too late.

But I must say, those pictures make that place look ridiculous.

[K. Krahenbuhl]

A couple more photos to show you the different looks at Rich Harvest...

[Jeff Tang]

The pictures of holes #3 (on one side) and #4 (on the other) do make the course look ridiculous.  These are the most extreme holes on the course, however.  I've played Rich Harvest at a little over 7,000 yards and it was very difficult all the way around although not as tight all the way as these two pictures represent.  The owner has a ton of property out there and can stretch the course as far as he wants so length will always make that course difficult.  However, the rough was also really thick and the greens were some of the quickest I've ever putted on.  I don't remember them having crazy slopes or anything, however.  The course is pretty tight in certain areas, most notably the holes #3 and #4 that I mentioned earlier.  I've played the course twice and found the second time to be more playable.  Overall it's a bit too tricked up for me, numbers 3 and 4 leave a bad taste in your mouth.  From what I've heard the course record from the back tees at 7,600 yards is held by Luke Donald and is 69.  Just what I've heard so I can't confirm the accuracy of this.  There's a lot of space out there so I'm sure if they wanted to host an open they would have enough room to do so, and with the length the usga could probably make it as difficult as they wanted to.

[Andy Troeger]

Can't speak to Rich Harvest but I have played Canyata. Its a good golf course; although I don't see it keeping up with some of the highest level clubs in Chicago (Shoreacres, Olympia Fields, etc). I did actually like it better than Butler National though so maybe its closer than I give it credit for. I thought the opening stretch at Canyata was the strongest part of the course. The middle is a little lagging and then the end is interesting, but I'm not sure if I really liked all the holes, particularly #16 and #18. Worth playing if you get an opportunity to be sure, but very private.

[Mark Smolens]

I'm not saying that there isn't enough room to make the course extraordinarily long.  I'm saying that there are a large number of holes where it would be difficult to move a crowd of people around.  It will be tight with the modest crowds from the Solheim Cup (there were even tight areas when Northern hosted a college tournament of some kind I'm told).

[PCCraig]

The pictures of RH are really neat, thank you for posting Kyle. The picture of (I'm assuming) the par-3 with the furry mound behind the green is probably my favorite. Like I said it has been a long time since I have been there, but I remember when I played it the course reminded me a lot like a Kemper Lakes on Steroids. Anyone else see the similarities?

Canyata is an interesting course. It states on its website that membership is limited to the owner's discretion, but then give information on joining. You would think with that location, it would have to be something really special to have enough people join to support the club's day to day operations.

[Adam Clayman]

Yes Pat, I thought immediately of Nugent. When I looked up the archie of record I saw the developers name. I assume he grew up playing in Chicago and as such was heavily influenced.

[Tim_Cronin]

Canyata is owned by Gerald Forsythe, a Chicago industrialist who was one of the recent backers of Champ Car. He also owns Ironhorse, a public course on Tuscola, Ill., that hosted the Illinois Amateur last year. Canyata is his backyard/getaway course. Must be nice to be able to do that.

[PCCraig]

Does anyone find it interesting that the two courses we have discuessed are both owner operated / designed?

If the Solhiem Cup is a success this fall at RH, does anyone think it would be possible for a men's tour to stop there?

[Gerry B]

fyi - the recently redone olympia fields south course which re opens on saturday will measure over 7100 yds

[Jeff Goldman]

fyi - the recently redone olympia fields south course which re opens on saturday will measure over 7100 yds

Yes Saturday is "moving day" not only at Torrey Pines but at OFCC, and the most important foursome I've been in lately will be around 7:45 am Saturday at the First tee of the South Course.  Me and the last 3 presidents.  Don't think anyone will be playing it from the back though.  It is 7150 or so, with 3 short par 4s, a 150 yard par 3, and only one par 5 over 540 from the back, so the rest has some yardage.  June 30 is the formal opening, and I expect that Smyers and his group will play from the back so we can see happens there.  It will be a grow-in year, so it won't be fast and firm for a while.

It's actually about 100 yards shorter from the regular tees now (6500 vs. 6600), but if the first 8 regular players drive it into the restored jumbo bunker on the left side of the fairway on 1, I'm heading to Yaabos (Hooters?) to watch the Open.

Jeff

[Mark Smolens]

Congratulations Jeff on the re-opening.  Looking forward to a post about how it looks. . .

[Adam Clayman]

OK sophisticates, lets compose a list of the best courses in Chicagoland and see if there's intersection.

Chicago Golf Club
Shore Acres
Beverly
Skokie
Briarwood
OFCC

What else?

Dubbs Dread?
Medinah?
The Dunes?

[Mark Chaplin]

Flossmoor - under rated and has an excellent back nine. Also the best 1/2 way hut cheeseburgers!
Old Elm - not the toughest but immaculately presented and lovely contouring on the greens.
Skokie - makes excellent use of a flat property.
Chicago Golf - world class course and a very friendly club. World's finest beef at lunch!
Glen View - excellent holes around the turn and a great finish in 17 & 18.
Black Sheep - inland links style course with 27 good holes. #25 is a top example of a short par 3.

The "only" Chicago courses I've played, but a great bunch of courses.

[Chuck Brown]

Thank you, Adam.  I was going to ask if there existed a spreadsheet anywhere that could sort Chicago courses by "quality."

Where would you put The Merit Club?
How about Butler National?
I don't mind your inclusion of The Dunes Club as long as we give credit that it is in Michigan.  I see that they even list Pointe o' Woods as a Chicago course?  That will come as quite a surprise to the Golf Association of Michigan.
What about older, more classic designs?  Hinsdale (D. Ross)?
Bob O' Link?
Other than CGC, and Shoreacres, what are the best examples of classic course design in Chicago?

[Mark Smolens]

Chuck, both Point O Woods and the Dunes Club (as well as Lost Dunes) are members of the Chicago District Golf Association.  When we post scores there, it goes directly into a CDGA computer!

I'd put Onwentsia on my list of top courses in Chicago.  Wonderfully maintained, great greens.  Merit Club is okay, but Butler.  Great place to spend a day, but a very, very tough place to play golf. 

[Adam Clayman]

I don't have the database but I'd bet there are plenty of quality designs if you could find them under all that foliage.

Ravisol(sp?)
North Shore

[Andy Troeger]

Including the SW Michigan courses...

Lost Dunes
OFCC North
Point O'Woods
Shoreacres

Canyata
Dunes Club
Butler National

Kemper Lakes

Not a bad course in the bunch.

[J_ Crisham]

The greatest courses in the Chicago area in no particular order are:
Chicago Golf Club
ShoreAcres
OFCC North(south unseen yet)
Skokie
Beverly
Butler
Medinah#1&3
The Dunes Club
Black Sheep
Rich Harvest Links
Knollwood
These are all I've been to -There may be others I've not played such as Bob'Olink,Owentsia, Old Elm ,and Hinsdale

[Chuck Brown]

Gee whiz; if Pointe O' Woods is a CDGA course, is Lost Dunes likewise a "Chicago course"?
If so, I am guessing that after the acknowledged legends like CGC and Shoreacres, Lost Dunes could make a claim to being the best 'modern' or 'new' course in the District.