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Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2008, 12:46:05 AM »
Kyle,if you join a few clubs and blow money on other hobbies and pleasures,think of the number of people you help employ. I bet that money goes a lot farther than the millions the government will have confiscated from you to misuse for the most part.Take some of your extra money and start a caddie program.Now that we have solved that,pick a good infomercial,go to the seminar and invite me to your new clubs(futures access does not count as an access request.)

Compelling arguments, but you're going to have to wait a very long time before you see me in a position that enables such pursuits. I make middle class wages and I pay a Northern California mortgage (pre-slump).  >:( Thus, I blow most of my money on renting "my" residence from a bank. It is the CEOs of banking conglomerates that will be playing Sebonack and getting the credit for employing people.

In the meantime, I invite you to come to Northern California. I'll be happy to take you on a tour of the hidden gems.  :D
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2008, 04:18:40 AM »
Mike: I'm not saying it's wrong. It boils down to personal values. I love golf, particularly on great golf courses, but I try not to let that love surpass my sense of philanthropy.

Kyle

I too think its obscene to pay the sort of money we are talking about for a golf membership. However, the world seems to turn on obscenity these days and to each is own. 

I don't know why folks expect rich people to give their money away just because they are rich.  Many very rich folk consider taxes a form of philanthropy and I can't say as I disagree with them.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Mark_F

Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2008, 04:45:14 AM »
Many very rich folk consider taxes a form of philanthropy and I can't say as I disagree with them.

Sean,

The difference being that the government wastes billions on needless expenditure like single mothers, wars, subsidising private health insurance etc, but philanthropy the money hopefully is targeted at worthwhile causes.

Rick Sides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2008, 10:50:32 AM »
Someone recently told me about a course called Squires Golf Club in Ambler,PA.  They said it was a lot to join.  Has anyone heard about this club before?

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2008, 10:54:18 AM »
The ironic thing about most of the comments in this thread is that just being able to have extra money to blow on golf and clubs is a huge luxury compared to 4/5th of the world population that lives in either 3rd world conditions or what we would call poverty.

In that sense we're all hypocrites to ask why someone would shell out so much money to belong to a club when an even greater body would ask why we would shell out $500 to buy a new set of sticks and then pay triple digit green fees when we play.

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2008, 11:15:37 AM »

Another important issue (beyond down payment and monthly dues) is how much you get back (if any) when you leave the club.  Transfer fees are typically 20-40% and up. 




Cary,

Do you mean that 100% of the refund goes to Uncle Sam, or that the refund is subject to a capital gains tax at the current 15% rate for the Feds and something or other for the Sate?

Currently it is the latter.


Bob
Not something anyone will have to worry about after Nov.

I'm sure our next Presdent, Obama will add the return of Initiation fees to be a fully 100% taxable event in his good faith IRS Code revisions redistributing wealth.

Brian Cenci

Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2008, 01:08:42 PM »
Dessert Mountain number is misleading because you need to own a lot to belong and lots begain just over $200,000.  So it's not really an initiation fee.

-Brian

Matthew Hunt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2008, 04:09:02 PM »
I'd like to see the super rich worry less about the poor and more about their own children and the women who helped get them there.

I find it strange that some present a passive plutocratic society as the American Ideal when the many generation of immigrants came to escape this system, can someone explain this to me? Society is what ‘made’ the super rich and it was their insurance policy if they didn’t succeed. A lot of people work very hard all their lives and contribute a lot to society that but have no desire to be rich.

Doug Ralston

Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2008, 04:30:23 PM »

Another important issue (beyond down payment and monthly dues) is how much you get back (if any) when you leave the club.  Transfer fees are typically 20-40% and up. 



Not something anyone will have to worry about after Nov.

I'm sure our next Presdent, Obama will add the return of Initiation fees to be a fully 100% taxable event in his good faith IRS Code revisions redistributing wealth.

Cary;

I recently had a thread political. I even made it clear in the title it was political, so those who did not wish to read that kind of thing could avoid. All that thread asked was for a certain rant that had been given earlier, and proven incorrect, be answered for. BUT; that thread was nonetheless deleted by Ran or whomever else can censor here. It was not the 1st time.

Now, each time these comments are of conservative bent, I notice no reaction from the powers that be. What then? Shall I consider that only liberals are censored?

Wel-l-ll, Yeah! Duh!

My point to you is one of shame, if you are able to feel that. Since you cannot be contested for such comments as you made here, perhaps you could at least be too embarrassed to make them?

Doug

PS: I had let the censorship pass without comment, but how shall I not note the double standard? Ran?

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #34 on: June 12, 2008, 04:52:30 PM »
Doug, That's a preposterous accusation. Likely as preposterous as your thread political. The PTB barely have time to delete non architectural threads that go off the first page. To imply they seek-out views they disagree with and delete them is ludicrous.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Doug Ralston

Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2008, 05:21:35 PM »
LOL;

Sure Adam. I've noticed how perposterous.

Adam, I am well aware that, considering the nature of this site, far more here will be conservative. I accept that my views will be 'minority opinion' here. But allowing what was said on one side and censoring any response is ill. Quite sad.

I have even for the most part tried to simply ignore the threads where it comes up. But a certain member said something so blatant that it should not have gone unopposed. And when his 'prediction' was completely refuted by the demonstratable facts, I simply offered him an opportunity to own to his error. I even made it clear that the thread was political, so those who did not wish to engage in that would simply not read it. But of course I was censored.

The fact that you called my response preposterous without even knowing the context must surely disqualify you from any objectivity in this issue. So why did you comment?

I think if Ran [or whomever else censored] can speak for themselves. It is, afterall, a private website, where censorship is a right reserved for the owner/operator. I accept that. But an explanation of the double standard is certainly in order.

Doug

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2008, 06:43:48 PM »

Another important issue (beyond down payment and monthly dues) is how much you get back (if any) when you leave the club.  Transfer fees are typically 20-40% and up. 



Not something anyone will have to worry about after Nov.

I'm sure our next Presdent, Obama will add the return of Initiation fees to be a fully 100% taxable event in his good faith IRS Code revisions redistributing wealth.

Cary;

I recently had a thread political. I even made it clear in the title it was political, so those who did not wish to read that kind of thing could avoid. All that thread asked was for a certain rant that had been given earlier, and proven incorrect, be answered for. BUT; that thread was nonetheless deleted by Ran or whomever else can censor here. It was not the 1st time.

Now, each time these comments are of conservative bent, I notice no reaction from the powers that be. What then? Shall I consider that only liberals are censored?

Wel-l-ll, Yeah! Duh!

My point to you is one of shame, if you are able to feel that. Since you cannot be contested for such comments as you made here, perhaps you could at least be too embarrassed to make them?

Doug

PS: I had let the censorship pass without comment, but how shall I not note the double standard? Ran?

Duh, a little joke and one get out of joint??????? Shame, LOL
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2008, 06:48:26 PM »
I too thought Cary's remark was total jest when I first read it..

But Doug, My point was the moderators do not have the time or inclination to censor anyone. Non gca threads run their course and get deleted.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Doug Ralston

Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2008, 07:28:55 PM »
I too thought Cary's remark was total jest when I first read it..

But Doug, My point was the moderators do not have the time or inclination to censor anyone. Non gca threads run their course and get deleted.

In my case it ran it's course in a matter of a few minutes Adam. Hmmm.

Doug the censored!

Doug Ralston

Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2008, 07:29:45 PM »
But have finish with this. Back to the topic, please.

Doug

Richard Boult

Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2008, 09:02:37 PM »
Instead of arguing that I'm employing those who service our community through private memberships, I'd rather play golf with them. Long live quality public golf!

Wayne_Freedman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2008, 09:28:45 PM »
If you can't buy a game, buy a club.


Dennis_Harwood

Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #42 on: June 12, 2008, 09:41:12 PM »
Missed my club--thank god (would have been top 10).

Experience is that those clubs that make these kinds of lists want to publisize their "price" to inflate values over what you can really get a membership for,  whereas many, many others don't want to advertize their entry fee and would rather concentrate on quality of member, rather than the $s he must pay to join--

Comment from a team captain of one those clubs to our captain when our clubs were arranging a club match and were having difficulty finding an mutually agreeable date --

"You don't understand.  You only have to deal with a membership of millionaries.  I've got to deal with billiionaries." (not a valid comparison if the other captain wanted to compare net worths).

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #43 on: June 12, 2008, 09:55:10 PM »
Sorry Doug,

Your post sounds a little defensive.  Sheez do any democrats have a sense of humor?  ;D


SB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #44 on: June 12, 2008, 10:26:43 PM »
Most of us work very hard so we can hope to spend lots of money on really nice recreation.

Boat people will spend $20 thousand to a million dollars to buy a boat, plus significant annual expenses
Plane people will spend $100 thousand to 4 million to buy a plane, plus significant annual expenses
Ski people will spend $500 thousand for a ski cabin, plus significant annual expenses

Golf is no more or no less expensive than a lot of other pursuits.


Patrick Hodgdon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2008, 03:07:08 AM »
Wow what a thread so far...

Let me break it down...

1) We have a poorly researched article on the "most expensive" clubs which appears to be strictly based on rumor and posturing rather than fact. Most of these clubs have been spoken for and said to be wrong. Amazing.

A certain club I have worked at (and posted about) that makes the list is almost wrong on the magnitude of 6 digits to the best of my knowledge (current April this year). How funny.

2) The discussion of top private clubs and their to some "outrageous" price tags immediately causes some here to woe the rich for their lavish spending when their are so many "better" and "useful" ways to spend their money. Amazing how in this context these clubs bring up "inequality" aka "the greatest sin in America" and yet when they are discussed alone in their own threads we can just talk about how great (or in some cases not as great) the courses are.

It's so easy to spend other people's money FOR THEM isn't it? I'm sure the first thing some people said reading that list was something along the lines of "well if I had that much money I certainly wouldn't waste it on a 'ridiculous' golf membership like that. There are plenty of 'good causes' and 'poor' people that 'deserve' or should get that money instead." And yet I am curious if those people who question the decisions of the rich will immediately "redistribute" (as if it was distributed by some higher power in the first place) and send all of their next raise or any type of extra money they might receive in the future to 'poor' people and 'better causes' than their own. Or will it rather go to their kids college tuition or a mortgage or a new car for the wife or on this site more likely a trip with the boys to Bandon for themselves? And what might their answer be then? "Well thats because I earned it and its my money!" How funny it is when its your money. Did you forget the 'better causes'? But hey when it comes to money people get funny. This thread being a perfect example actually. 

3) We have "found" that "conservative" joking is ok but not "liberal" posting of threads. Good to know I guess? Has nothing to do with golf architecture so who cares? I was curious why there wasn't different sections of threads under the DG but I now know why I think. It's supposed to be about constructive discussion on golf and golf architecture and nothing else. So its easy to understand why such OT threads get deleted. I also would think that OT threads that don't entice bickering and arguing get let by because they don't distract from golf talk all that much. We could all fight about politics til the cows come home forever as long as this site existed but an OT thread about the NBA finals won't even be remembered two weeks from now and we'll be onto discussing the British Open instead. I would imagine that if you desire an answer you could ask the PTB directly by pm rather than requesting one outright Doug. I certainly don't think your request is unjustified I just doubt you'll get an answer this way as it itself is taking away from GCA discussion.

Did I miss anything?
Did you know World Woods has the best burger I've ever had in my entire life? I'm planning a trip back just for another one between rounds.

"I would love to be a woman golfer." -JC Jones

Doug Ralston

Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2008, 08:33:40 AM »
Wow what a thread so far...

Let me break it down...

1) We have a poorly researched article on the "most expensive" clubs which appears to be strictly based on rumor and posturing rather than fact. Most of these clubs have been spoken for and said to be wrong. Amazing.

A certain club I have worked at (and posted about) that makes the list is almost wrong on the magnitude of 6 digits to the best of my knowledge (current April this year). How funny.

2) The discussion of top private clubs and their to some "outrageous" price tags immediately causes some here to woe the rich for their lavish spending when their are so many "better" and "useful" ways to spend their money. Amazing how in this context these clubs bring up "inequality" aka "the greatest sin in America" and yet when they are discussed alone in their own threads we can just talk about how great (or in some cases not as great) the courses are.

It's so easy to spend other people's money FOR THEM isn't it? I'm sure the first thing some people said reading that list was something along the lines of "well if I had that much money I certainly wouldn't waste it on a 'ridiculous' golf membership like that. There are plenty of 'good causes' and 'poor' people that 'deserve' or should get that money instead." And yet I am curious if those people who question the decisions of the rich will immediately "redistribute" (as if it was distributed by some higher power in the first place) and send all of their next raise or any type of extra money they might receive in the future to 'poor' people and 'better causes' than their own. Or will it rather go to their kids college tuition or a mortgage or a new car for the wife or on this site more likely a trip with the boys to Bandon for themselves? And what might their answer be then? "Well thats because I earned it and its my money!" How funny it is when its your money. Did you forget the 'better causes'? But hey when it comes to money people get funny. This thread being a perfect example actually. 

3) We have "found" that "conservative" joking is ok but not "liberal" posting of threads. Good to know I guess? Has nothing to do with golf architecture so who cares? I was curious why there wasn't different sections of threads under the DG but I now know why I think. It's supposed to be about constructive discussion on golf and golf architecture and nothing else. So its easy to understand why such OT threads get deleted. I also would think that OT threads that don't entice bickering and arguing get let by because they don't distract from golf talk all that much. We could all fight about politics til the cows come home forever as long as this site existed but an OT thread about the NBA finals won't even be remembered two weeks from now and we'll be onto discussing the British Open instead. I would imagine that if you desire an answer you could ask the PTB directly by pm rather than requesting one outright Doug. I certainly don't think your request is unjustified I just doubt you'll get an answer this way as it itself is taking away from GCA discussion.

Did I miss anything?

Nope, not a thing. You certainly made certain assumptions that did not encompass MY view of how people should use their wealth, so I will assume you were not referring to me.

I said earlier that I would drop this, allowing whomever deleted my thread mere moments after it was put out to answer me if they will. They certainly did not need to do so.

Since once again you DO make it sound like my thread spawned from nothing but my 'liberal' rantings, I WILL reiterate this much.

1. Someone made very spiteful and contemptuous political assertions, stated as if factual.
2. I offered to 'wait and see'.
3.I waited and saw!
4. Their prediction/assertion so contemptuously given proved totally unfounded by the facts.
5. I offered [in a thread clearly titled OT: Political, so those who did not want to read such would not], I offered, as I say, an opportunity for said raver to concede that they had been mistaken.
6. I did NOT put forth any counterravings. I simply showed how that facts contradicted.
7. UNLIKE the statements which WERE spiteful, my toned response was deleted immeadiately.
8. This is not the first time. And yet, I constantly see conservative political mutterings here accepted, often with agreement from others, and apparently no response from 'the Powers the Be'.

All this being said, I am content to, once again, let this stand. This IS a private site. Those who own/control CAN censor at will. They can answer me at will too .... or not.

Doug

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2008, 09:13:04 AM »
Doug, If your thread was deleted immediately, before anyone had a chance to reply, the thread was nipped before it got legs and therefore it's course was short. I will not speak for the powers that be, but, I'm aware of threads in the past that caught fire that were allowed to run their course. Once it hits page 2 the moderator(s) deletes.

In your instance, I suppose we were all lucky the moderator was online and acted quickly.  ;)
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

W.H. Cosgrove

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #48 on: June 13, 2008, 09:39:44 AM »
Conservative or Liberal?  Who cares.  What we should be discussing is whether the IRS decison to disallow club deductions has lead to a situation where the truly pricey clubs can exist while the mid level and lower clubs struggle.

Maybe that is a conservative and liberal discussion that needs to be investigated.  The liberals no longer want the rich to entertain clients at "The Club" so it is no longer an appropriate deduction.  What has that done to the private club industry? 

And how have I been sucked into this when we are in the middle of a US Open?  Go KYLE STANLEY!

Patrick Hodgdon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Expensive Private Clubs - Forbes Traveler
« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2008, 09:41:05 AM »
Nope, not a thing. You certainly made certain assumptions that did not encompass MY view of how people should use their wealth, so I will assume you were not referring to me.

I wasn't.

I said earlier that I would drop this, allowing whomever deleted my thread mere moments after it was put out to answer me if they will. They certainly did not need to do so.

So why keep asking? They obviously don't want to answer or I expect they would.

Since once again you DO make it sound like my thread spawned from nothing but my 'liberal' rantings, I WILL reiterate this much.

1. Someone made very spiteful and contemptuous political assertions, stated as if factual.
2. I offered to 'wait and see'.
3.I waited and saw!
4. Their prediction/assertion so contemptuously given proved totally unfounded by the facts.
5. I offered [in a thread clearly titled OT: Political, so those who did not want to read such would not], I offered, as I say, an opportunity for said raver to concede that they had been mistaken.
6. I did NOT put forth any counterravings. I simply showed how that facts contradicted.
7. UNLIKE the statements which WERE spiteful, my toned response was deleted immeadiately.
8. This is not the first time. And yet, I constantly see conservative political mutterings here accepted, often with agreement from others, and apparently no response from 'the Powers the Be'.

Um why does it matter where it came from. It's unfortunate that someone (FWIW I have no idea the context of who or what) made such claims and they probably should own up. PM would work there as no one else seems to care or want this person to own up. (Again fwiw I have no idea the thread or the person)

All this being said, I am content to, once again, let this stand. This IS a private site. Those who own/control CAN censor at will. They can answer me at will too .... or not.

Doug

And there ya go, you said it yourself. Be content and lets all get back to golf and discussing the top private clubs now please, minus the political bent this time.

How about this question for you all, if you had a million bucks that you were forced to spend on a golf membership(s) where would you spend it? Would you go with 4 @ $250k? or 2 at $500k? or 1 @ $1mm?

Which of these would then be worth the price tag and which wouldn't?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 09:43:33 AM by Patrick Hodgdon »
Did you know World Woods has the best burger I've ever had in my entire life? I'm planning a trip back just for another one between rounds.

"I would love to be a woman golfer." -JC Jones

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