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Jay Flemma

Flemma's Furry Follies
« on: June 10, 2008, 06:31:49 PM »
...I'm just keeping with the alliteration from when that one guy did the thread "Flemma's Fabulous Fawning."  I'm branding it:)

One thing...it's 3.5 million, not 35 million...we're fixing the glitch, but enjoy.  One more thing, this was written last month, so there have been some developments, but still...it's a fun little sketch.

http://www.majorschampionships.com/2008/microsites/usopen/2008/06/07/torrey_flemma_060708/index.html
« Last Edit: June 10, 2008, 06:36:00 PM by Jay Flemma »

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2008, 06:59:02 PM »
Nice article.

I sure disagree, though, with your contention that Tiger will see 18 green-light flags at Torrey. If those greens have anything, it's wings and corners.

Jay Flemma

Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2008, 07:01:08 PM »
I don't think it'll be eighteen, but everyone is saying it's the most playable Open course in a long time.

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2008, 08:11:47 PM »
What does playable mean?

Jay Flemma

Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2008, 08:36:00 PM »
to them?  Easy.

Scott Szabo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2008, 10:33:46 PM »
Playable?  Seriously?  I read an article where Mickelson said the boys won't be close to par, to expect something more of a massacre than in recent years.....
"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Jay Flemma

Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2008, 10:43:45 PM »
everyone else was singing a different tune during the interviews today.  You'll see when my article goes up tomorrow. They are chompin at the bit...

For you music fans, the title is "A California Open:  Knockin on the Golden Door"

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2008, 08:39:42 AM »
Jay: I've played Torrey a bunch of times and I agree with the sentiment that it's basically a boring course with great views.  Tiger should eat it up, why, because he has the best pure putting stroke of any player.  Putting is a much simpler action or motion than swinging a club, that is, it is not nearly as complex as hitting the ball.  For the great putter it is something that he can repeat over and over - he can make a pure stroke.  The question then is reading the line and knowing how hard to hit it.  Heck, they have a computer generated line on TV broadcasts that shows what direction the putt needs to go and then the line it will follow if it is hit in that direction.  So if the greens are relatively flat, the line and speed will not be a secret and the player with the best stroke will win.  Of course, if the player takes too many shots getting to the green, then no matter how well he putts he will not win, but if he is competetive in his play to the greens, then the best putter will win. 

Jay Flemma

Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #8 on: June 11, 2008, 09:14:25 AM »
I just dont believe the hype about the knee, either.  Tiger's too long and putts too well, especially on flat greens.

tlavin

Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2008, 09:38:43 AM »
I found this in your well-written article:

"This year, for the first time since the plain yogurt Olympia Fields, the golf course will not be the star."

Ouch.  We like to think that we have fruit in our yogurt at OFCC!

Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2008, 11:40:25 AM »
JAY..
Man your are brutal on Olympia Fields, I agree lets at least put some fruit on that youghurt........
But with regards Torrey Pines...the USGA Obsession with"public"courses does indeed leave us with a second rate Open venue..
I dont see the problem with continuing on the rotation of classic courses for the national Open, but that is just my opinion.
I much prefer to see the likes of  merion, winged foot, oakmont etc..every year...but then they cant make as much money....oh thats right it's for the perception of the everyday player that we go to "public" facilities....money and profit have nothing to do with it.

Jay Flemma

Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2008, 02:22:20 PM »
Hi MIke!  Hello Terry, thanks for reading.

Look, please just chalk it up to my opinion.

People's tastes in golf coursers are personal, just like tastes in women.  Guys look at me sideways because I like a fiery red-head or a permed brunette more than a blond.

We've been spoiled the last few years with Shinny, Oakmont, Pinehurst and winged foot.  That's a tough crew to run with.  As I like to say, a porterhouse, a bone in ribeye. a giant NY strip au poivre, and a double lobster tail.  In true comparison, maybe OF is a petit filet in comparison. 

Lets switch back to the yogurt analogy, maybe there are some nice blueberries with anti-oxidents in the yogurt.

I may disappoint you with my opinion...and it may get worse, because I was required...REQUIRED...to do a best/worst Open venues for another magazine and selected OF.  But again, I didn't say it was worst in the country or state...just in a list of US Open venues.  I havent seen those two in texas and in retrospect, maybe champions and the one in houston are worse, but I havent seen them in person or on TV.  You also have to admit...OF took a beating from furyk and co in 2003.  There didnt seem to be much architecture or great greens.  I chose Chicago golf club as one of the ten best venues though.

I'll warn everyone right now, I was even more merciless on Medinah and TCC...ruthless.  They may orderr an arrest warrent for me in whatever town TCC is in, but I have seen that and I was sort of bored.  Granted, I saw it in '85 and again in '95 and have infinitely more architecture under my belt now, but hey, this was not my call.  My editor asked me to do this piece and in a two day period.  I do what I can and move to the next thing.  If I get to see either course and change my mind, I'll be happy to say, you know what, I've seen the light.

My 10 best OPEN VENUES (NOT COURSES or FAVORITES) in no order:

Chicago  GC
Winged Foot West (Number 2 in my book)
Oakmont (number 1)
Pinehurst No 2
Garden City
Myopia Hunt Club
Pebble (according to Ran, there's better architecture in the delmonte forest holes than many think and there's other reasons too...)
Shinny
Merion
OH

Worst

TCC
Medinah - "It’s the John Kerry of golf courses, a big ugly dog nobody likes:  too much water, too many trees, too long, too flat, three scoops of unflavored yogurt for greens and the goofiest clubhouse ever.  As Dan Jenkins wrote, “It was either built to look like a temple for Shriners or the architect designed it after he put on a fez and hit every bar on Rush Street.”  The roof is topped with a row of gargoyles modeled on the grim visages of past PGA TOUR Commissioners, each spitting the bodies of unfortunate tour players with arrows, spears, and bloodthirsty fangs.  Where’s Madeline Usher when we need her?  And if you think that’s ugly, wait till you see the golf course…"


Olympia
Hazeltine
Torrey

Hmm...too much yogurt...next time, I'll mix in a salad:):)


Michael Wharton-Palmer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2008, 03:47:47 PM »
LOVE IT!!!!!
Great and as entertaining as ever...TCC?
I am not in a thuinking mode where is that?
No real argument with OF/Hazeltine or any of the others mentioned...intersting to see how Chambers BAY GETS EVALUATED THOUGH?

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2008, 03:50:37 PM »
  You also have to admit...OF took a beating from furyk and co in 2003.  There didnt seem to be much architecture or great greens.  I chose Chicago golf club as one of the ten best venues though.

 




If I recall, OF got quite a bit of rain that softened the course considerably, no?
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Jay Flemma

Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2008, 05:39:25 PM »
Someone mentioned that, but its not ju8st the scores, its the architecture, and the setting and the deets...

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2008, 09:46:42 PM »
Jay,
Did I hear you ask a question during the tiger interview yesterday or was it some other guy with an accent?
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Jay Flemma

Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2008, 12:16:49 AM »
I asked him about hius adjustments from feb's torrey to now...what accent do I have?:):)

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2008, 05:48:07 PM »
Built by Billy Bell and son in 1957, Torrey is gorgeous, with holes clinging to cliff tops overlooking the Pacific, but as one famous architecture critic wrote, "a fairly dull layout with a view ... 3,6,7 of the north are the only [holes] bringing the ocean or ravines into play and they take a much more exciting picture than they play."



Jay, Sr was dead by '53.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Jay Flemma

Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #18 on: June 12, 2008, 07:24:02 PM »
Again...for the second time.  The figure is CORRECT and every golf writer agrees.  I dont have time to elaborate now because I'm working.  Check your work and report back.

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #19 on: June 12, 2008, 10:06:08 PM »
I asked him about hius adjustments from feb's torrey to now...what accent do I have?:):)

Jay,
All you northern guys have an accent ;D ;D
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #20 on: June 12, 2008, 11:18:01 PM »
Again...for the second time.  The figure is CORRECT and every golf writer agrees.  I dont have time to elaborate now because I'm working.  Check your work and report back.


Is this in reference to my comment about Bell?
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2008, 09:33:24 AM »
The sailing was an interesting and well used metaphor. Although, I would've preferred top gallon.

What was Tiger's answer?

David is correct. As it turns out, the wife had more to do with it than the father.


"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Jay Flemma

Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #22 on: June 13, 2008, 10:09:53 AM »
I dont know about that adam...the SON may have, but we're really counting the number of angels on a pin.

If I'm wrong on thatv-then a HELL of alot of people are with me and "good on  ya!" to whitten for catching. 

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #23 on: June 13, 2008, 11:19:20 AM »
Jay, first I would like to take credit for being "that one guy."  Second, I continue to marvel at your downplaying of Ouimet's victory at The Country Club.  One could readily argue that it remains the greatest upset in sports history or at least the seminal event in the history of the American golfer. 

Kindest regards,

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Jay Flemma

Re: Flemma's Furry Follies
« Reply #24 on: June 13, 2008, 11:30:10 AM »
What about Ed Furgol?  What about Michael Campbell?

Back then, the difference between pros and ams was negligible.  Walter travis was a hell of an amateur?  Why isn't he spoken of in the same holy whispers?

WHAT ABOUT CHICK EVANS?  Until I get a good answer to why he's not revered the same way?

Just because a great event happened there once...even twice doesn't make the GOLF Course great...

Now...one thing...some body put that shinny was designed by CBM...(someone in VA edited that in...)  We all know that I know its flynn...I sent an email to VA and they promise to fix that glitch.

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