[Bob_Huntley]

Do you prefer it to the par-5 opening hole you usually play?

(I've never played Spyglass.)

Matt,

Yes.

Bob

[Bob_Huntley]

David,

Mediocre drive down the right side, long iron approach, inelegant chip, 2 putt from <10' for par.  Neat green, busy tee, OBL but the hole can be played with two 5 irons and a 9.  Personally, I thought it was the weakest hole on the course, but to each his own.  I did think that #2 was quite a hole.
 

Weakest? Hmmm. Not sure about that. I like the fact that both 1 and 2 are almost par 4.5. To be sure, 1 is not a very difficult hole, but 2 is one of the toughest, IMHO, on the course.

David,

When you say that Riviera's No.2 is one of the toughest, is that as a par 4 or as a Par 5 for members circa 1970-1975? I opened with a four, two , this month some thirty three years ago.

Bob

[David Stamm]

David,

Mediocre drive down the right side, long iron approach, inelegant chip, 2 putt from <10' for par.  Neat green, busy tee, OBL but the hole can be played with two 5 irons and a 9.  Personally, I thought it was the weakest hole on the course, but to each his own.  I did think that #2 was quite a hole.
 

Weakest? Hmmm. Not sure about that. I like the fact that both 1 and 2 are almost par 4.5. To be sure, 1 is not a very difficult hole, but 2 is one of the toughest, IMHO, on the course.

David,

When you say that Riviera's No.2 is one of the toughest, is that as a par 4 or as a Par 5 for members circa 1970-1975? I opened with a four, two , this month some thirty three years ago.

Bob

Wow! That's a hell of a start! From the tips at 463, uphill on the approach, well protected by bunkers, I just think 2 is a great, tough par 4 that doesn't get talked about much when Riviera is discussed. 

[Bob_Huntley]

David,

I think we played it at around 480+.


Bob

[David Stamm]

As a par 4?

[Bob_Huntley]

David,

No, as a 5.

Bob

[David Stamm]

Shew! I was going to say, yikes! In either case, a 2 is a 2 and that start must've gotten the juices going!

[Bob_Huntley]

David,

I have just got a scorecard from that time and the Members Tee was at 465 yards.

Bob

[Bart Bradley]

Grandfather Golf and CC starts with a pretty nice par 5 but Spyglass #1 is better.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Bob,
I agree I love the opening hole, when you turn that corner and see the Ocean for the first time...splendid indeed.
A tough hole as well the third shot into that green is very yardage specific and the lay up second is no cup of tea......

That been said my all time favourite opening hole is Royal Birkdale..awesome driving hole, especially back inthe day of 260 being a long drive!

The first at Kingsley also springs to mind

[Jon Spaulding]

Jon Spaulding,

RE: Rustic Canyon #1

Was that a cougar they saw prowling along the fairway?  Someone said it was of the African variety, but that's hard to believe.

Like so many holes at RC, the wind makes all the difference in the world.  If the hazard was more intimidating, it would be a much more difficult decision.

LD, I have not heard of any cougar sightings @ Rustic recently. There were a couple of cougar hunters seen in the Thousand Oaks last week however.

I agree that the hazard at Rustic is not very intimidating; but well placed and forces a distinct decision on the 2nd swing of the day.

[Bob Jenkins]

Bob,

I share your appreciation for Spyglass #1 as do most of us on this board and really enjoyed reading Jordan's comments. Love to see your enthusiasm continues!

Another par 5 opener is at Olympic Lake. It has been a long time since I was there but it certainly did not disappoint, although it certainly is not up to Spyglass #1.

I have been trying to recall some other opening par 5s and it surprises me how few there are, but that may be due to my fading memory.

[John Mayhugh]

Jon Spaulding,

RE: Rustic Canyon #1

Was that a cougar they saw prowling along the fairway?  Someone said it was of the African variety, but that's hard to believe.

Like so many holes at RC, the wind makes all the difference in the world.  If the hazard was more intimidating, it would be a much more difficult decision.

LD, I have not heard of any cougar sightings @ Rustic recently. There were a couple of cougar hunters seen in the Thousand Oaks last week however.

I agree that the hazard at Rustic is not very intimidating; but well placed and forces a distinct decision on the 2nd swing of the day.

If I were only a few years younger these cougar sightings would be far more interesting...

[Mark Arata]

I really love the opening hole at Olympic myself, could be because it is close to the driving range where they are cooking those burgers......ummm.....burger..........

Sweeping par 5 down the hill to the left, very pretty hole, fun way to start a round.

I do love the 1st at Spyglass, but I agree with whomever said they like the 2nd hole even more......I love the 2nd there.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I hadn't considered Sand Hills, which I should have. I think the ocean view gets to me so strongly.

Bob,

I can't think of a better starting Par 5.

While Sand Hills is pretty impressive, it's tough to beat # 1 at Spyglass as it meanders down to the Pacific.

Boca Rio starts off with a very nice par 5.
Let me know if you're heading to Florida one of these days.

Baltusrol Upper and Lower, Riviera and a few others come to mind.

I like an opening par 5 as it provides for nice margins of error on the first hole, your introduction to the golf course.

[Tom Huckaby]

Patrick:

If you would be so kind, please explain why you prefer Spyglass #1 to Sand Hills number one.  Interestingly we each gave an explanation, and mine was about the shots required (go back to page one, see my post on the subject), yours seems to be all about external views ("as it meanders down to the Pacific" - which is at least a half mile behind where the hole ends).

Is this bizarro / zany role reversal day?

TH

[Tim Bert]

Put me in the camp of Sand Hills for #1.  Spyglass is great, but Sand Hills is just incomparable for me when it comes to a par 5 opener.

I think I actually prefer the opener at MPCC Shore as well as far as a playing preference.  I think the view and the wrap-around extreme downhill nature of Spyglass make it a more scenic, eye-popping opener, but I'll take the Shore offering on most days. 

Jordan - If only you would have made the same wise decision to lay up on the 14th at Spyglass.   

[Andy Troeger]

Tim,
Can't come close to agreeing with you on MPCC Shore vs Spyglass when just considering #1. MPCC is a nice hole, but nowhere close to Spyglass in my view. I pulled my tee shot into a tree and went maybe 150 yards at MPCC, and still hit iron to 130 and made birdie. Try doing that at Spyglass.

And its not just the difficulty aspect, nothing wrong with a reasonable opener. The downhill and dogleg nature and the excellent green at Spyglass also set it apart.

I do think that 2 and 4 at Spyglass are even better. Pretty good start I must say!

[Tim Bert]

Andy - I agree with a good deal of what you are saying.  Perhaps #1 Spyglass is a little softened in my mind because of what follows from #2 through #5.  What a great start to the golf course!

MPCC Shore is definitely the easier of the two holes.  I didn't hit a very good tee shot, had to punch out, and still found myself with a reasonable shot at par.  I suppose it just suits my eye visually more from the tee with all the bunkering and everything going on.  I'd certainly allow for debate and accept defeat re: MPCC Shore vs. Spyglass. 

I find it harder to accept defeat when the topic is Sand Hills #1.

[Bob_Huntley]

Tim,
Can't come close to agreeing with you on MPCC Shore vs Spyglass when just considering #1. MPCC is a nice hole, but nowhere close to Spyglass in my view. I pulled my tee shot into a tree and went maybe 150 yards at MPCC, and still hit iron to 130 and made birdie. Try doing that at Spyglass.

And its not just the difficulty aspect, nothing wrong with a reasonable opener. The downhill and dogleg nature and the excellent green at Spyglass also set it apart.

I do think that 2 and 4 at Spyglass are even better. Pretty good start I must say!

Andy,

I must agree with you. As a supernumary when it comes to length on the golf course, the 1st at MPCC is  still birdieable by this old codger... the 1st at Spyglass would be, but only with a world class putt.


Bob

[Patrick_Mucci]

If you would be so kind, please explain why you prefer Spyglass #1 to Sand Hills number one.  Interestingly we each gave an explanation, and mine was about the shots required (go back to page one, see my post on the subject), yours seems to be all about external views ("as it meanders down to the Pacific" - which is at least a half mile behind where the hole ends).

Is this bizarro / zany role reversal day?


No, it's just your inability to read what I wrote, which was:

"It's tough to beat # 1 at Spyglass as it meanders down to the Pacific."

I like # 1 at Sand Hills, I just don't have the same degree of reverence that you have when evaluating the hole/course.

I'm not as enamored of the approach shot as you are, nor do I feel that the second shot is sensational.

Pull your tee shot on # 1 at Sand Hills and your day could be ruined.

I like par 5's that provide adequate margins of error as introductory holes.

I think # 1 at Spyglass does that quite well.

I'm not just a fan of # 1, I'm a fan of the holes that form the initial introduction to the golf course, I like the routing, elevation changes, diversity in par, greens and challenge.

Perhaps my views on # 1 at Sand Hills would change if I played it in more wind, which is amongst my favorite features.

# 1 at Spyglass has some added personal, sentimental value for me that can't be found at # 1 at Sand Hills ......... yet.[/color]

[Scott Szabo]

I'll throw out #1 at Castle Pines here in Castle Rock, Colorado.  It's a beautiful hole, with the tee shot required to be hit to the far right side of the fairway if you are to have a go at the green in two.  I have not have the privilege of playing, but have walked the hole 10 or 12 times while working as a scoring observer at the International.

Hearing the big boys talk about what a precise tee shot it called for if they were going to attach the green in two made me realize it was more than just your ordinary par-five starter hole.

By the way, Huck, you are killing me with the constant reminder of the first at Sand Hills.  It brings back such memories, and I'm afraid a return visit may not be in the cards.

Scott

[Eric_Terhorst]

I always felt hemmed in by the trees on the opening tee shot at Spyglass.  That's the only reason I can't rank it as an equal other openers I like better.

Couldn't some of those trees left be removed to create a more spacious feel on that tee, and at least a partial view of what's to come?

[Jim Nugent]

Baltusrol Upper and Lower, Riviera and a few others come to mind.

Does Baltusrol Lower open with a par 5 for members?  That means it opens and closes with par 5's.  Any other great courses (top 100 or so) do that? 

[Dave_Miller]

Played Spyglass for the umpteenth time over the weekend and was as thrilled to play the opener as I was in 1966.

Although a much shorter hitter now, than then, I still managed to get fairly close to the green. The green itself is full of guile and cunning and no matter how skilled and accomplished the  amateur player, par is a very good score.

Are there very many better opening par fives?


Bob

Bob:
Not in my opinion (which Braley may say is suspect) but definetly not in my lifetime
Best
Dave

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