[Bob_Huntley]

Played Spyglass for the umpteenth time over the weekend and was as thrilled to play the opener as I was in 1966.

Although a much shorter hitter now, than then, I still managed to get fairly close to the green. The green itself is full of guile and cunning and no matter how skilled and accomplished the  amateur player, par is a very good score.

Are there very many better opening par fives?


Bob

[Matt_Cohn]

Do you prefer it to the par-5 opening hole you usually play?

(I've never played Spyglass.)

[Lou_Duran]

Bob Huntley,

I too love the start at Spyglass.  But how about #1 at Sand Hills?  Great hole, not too tough of a start (it lets #2 set the tone), and so representative of what awaits you out there on the course.

[Bob_Huntley]

Lou,

I hadn't considered Sand Hills, which I should have. I think the ocean view gets to me so strongly.

Bob

[cary lichtenstein]

I remember less and less as the years go by, but I not only remember the first hole, but the  smells, the sounds, the fog, the ball in the air on the drive like forever and seeing it drop down and not know really where it was, kinda punching the second shot and walking up to te 3rd, seeing the hole open up and introduce itself, and then turn around, seeing all the deer having their way with the grass, like hello, you know this is our home, the muffled sounds in the background, later to learn they were the fog horn sounds of the sea lions, really brings back memories of friends and family I played with their many times, past ones, my dad especially, him making a 2 on #4, and I'm not sure he knew where the green was, a most marveleous course. I would guess it was RTJ best.

[Lou_Duran]

Bob,

The first time I played Spyglass was in the company of two marijuana smoking prosecutors from Nevada and I too was blown away by the stunning view of the ocean (not the smoke) as I approached my drive.  I've never scored well at Spyglass, but I love the course.

What can be said about Sand Hills that hasn't already been said.  Young Tom Huckaby stated that it was his #1 course.  Such holes as 1, 2, 17, 18 (I could list another half dozen or more) are so memorable, and the course is definitely a stronger, more complete test than my favorite.  But there is just something about the Pacific and that little course near the point (makes me teary-eyed just thinking about it).

[Jordan Wall]

Bob,

I have not played as many courses as some here.  However, I had the great thrill of playing Spyglass with a few fellow GCA'ers, one of my great memories from the trip.  We checked in the pro shop, and side by side with John and Bob walked down by the first tee in the fog, towards the range.  I remember that walk well because I was like a little kid - I could just not wait to get off - and Bob and John just smiled as I stared down that first fairway.  Of course, I had to putt for at least fifteen minutes directly behind that tee before I actually stepped up to hit my first shot at Spyglass.  The view was incredible.  The ocean, a misty cool air, and a dewy tee box paved the way for an exciting start.  Just amazing.

However, what got me the most was how hard of a third shot was, even with a short iron.  I hit my drive very well, about 320 off the tee and had just 245 in.  I could not bring myself to go for the green (God knows why...!?) and laid up.  I got to my ball and was just kicking myself for not going for the green.  That third was no easy task.  And then the green had such deceiving slopes.  Despite going toward the water, and downhill, the putts were a lot slower than we had thought.  Tricked the entire group, even after watching others come up short.

Not to mention, the bunkering is just fantastic.

So, while there could be better opening par-5's, there is none better then I have played, and IF there really are better opening par-5's, I would like to play them, because they must be pretty darn good!

Cheers,
Jordan

[Adam Clayman]

Bob, you need'nt limit it to Am players.

[Tom Huckaby]

A few years ago I compiled my list of best holes I've ever played, based on the number.  That is, best #1, best #2, etc.

And Spyglass Hill #1 got the nod.  It is a GREAT GREAT golf hole, for sure.

But then I played Sand Hills... and I found myself favoring it. 

I too love the ocean.  But to me Sand Hills has just a teeny bit more going on.  That is, I can't see ever going for Spyglass in two shots.  I have reached Sand Hills in a downwind.  The choices involved in making this happen are what make me turn toward Sand Hills and being more fun, and thus a bit superior.  But take this out of the equation and I can definitely see Spyglass holding firm at the top.  It is a fantastic hole.  They both are.

TH

[David Stamm]

Spyglass's #1 is a favorite of mine. For opener's, it's a tie w/ #1 at Riviera for favorite opener's I've played.

[tlavin]

Spyglass's #1 is a favorite of mine. For opener's, it's a tie w/ #1 at Riviera for favorite opener's I've played.

I love both courses, but Spy's opener is a much better hole, IMHO than the first at the Riv, which is interesting mostly because of its elevated tee which takes the golfer to a course that is then almost entirely flat until the 17th hole.

[John Mayhugh]

It's a great opener to a course that I really enjoyed.  I agree with Jordan that there is so much fun anticipating the start while you're on the range and putting green. 

[Adam Clayman]

Interesting comparison Riv and Spy. From tee to the mid LZ's, Spy is just a tad cooler, with excellent varied ground movements, though the juxtaposition of the straight line OB at the Riv, is more fearsome than the woods at Spy. From approach in I prefer the elegant greensite at The Riv with it's perfectly placed bunker and corresponding interactive slopes. The green at Spyglass is no slouch with it's hard to read sections, but it's bunker scheme has the signature traits of the Jones'. Which is a tad excessive, IMO.

The elasticity of the Thomas designed green also increases the number of ways to approach, day in day out.

[Lou_Duran]

Even in my drunkest stupor I could never put Riviera's #1 (or LACC's, Bel-Air's, Stanford's- is this a Thomas signature design thing to begin with a par 5?) in the same slurred sentence as Spyglass or Sand Hills.  I can't think of other courses which begin with a really good par 5.  Colonial's is pretty good, but somewhat awkward.   

[David Stamm]

Riviera's green is one of the neatest, most interesting I've ever seen. It makes the hole, IMHO. While the tee shot on Spyglass has more interest, it's green doesn't come close to Riviera's. They both have their strengths and I like them both.

[Lou_Duran]

David,

Mediocre drive down the right side, long iron approach, inelegant chip, 2 putt from <10' for par.  Neat green, busy tee, OBL but the hole can be played with two 5 irons and a 9.  Personally, I thought it was the weakest hole on the course, but to each his own.  I did think that #2 was quite a hole.
 

[David Stamm]

David,

Mediocre drive down the right side, long iron approach, inelegant chip, 2 putt from <10' for par.  Neat green, busy tee, OBL but the hole can be played with two 5 irons and a 9.  Personally, I thought it was the weakest hole on the course, but to each his own.  I did think that #2 was quite a hole.
 

Weakest? Hmmm. Not sure about that. I like the fact that both 1 and 2 are almost par 4.5. To be sure, 1 is not a very difficult hole, but 2 is one of the toughest, IMHO, on the course.

[Lou_Duran]

David,

I understand that some folks believe that Par is irrelevant.  Perhaps you are among them.  I was a financial analyst in a prior life and learned that when measuring or comparing anything (primarily performance) some type of standard is necessary (budget, forecast, prior period, industry, competitors, peer groups etc.).  In golf, Par is that standard.  So, perhaps incorrectly, when I evaluate #1 my first frame of reference or point of comparison is not the par 4 #2, but other par 5s.

While the difficulty of a hole alone is not what makes it great, I think that the type of shots that it requires has a considerable bearing.  It is not likely that one can hit a really bad shot on #2 and still make a routine par.  It is entirely possible to hit two lousy shots on #1 and still have two putts for par.     

[Kyle Henderson]

I haven't played it myself, but I watched J.B. Holmes turn Spyglass #1 into a  par 4 a few months ago. Still, It definitely ranks up there among the best openers I've seen.

I haven't been to Europe, but the opener at Machrihanish appears quite compelling.

Stammster: Riviera's opener is very good but Spyglass is more interesting from tee to green because The Riv now has that pedestrian, rectangular mowing line for the first 2/3 of the hole. I put #1 at The Olympic Club (Lake) in the same class, but it lacks interest around the green compared to The Riv and Spyglass' opening putting surfaces IMHO.

[David Stamm]

Stammster: Riviera's opener is very good but Spyglass is more interesting from tee to green because The Riv now has that pedestrian, rectangular mowing line for the first 2/3 of the hole. 

I agree, that's why I said the tee shot (and really should've said from tee to green like you described) at Spyglass is better. I just think the green at Riviera is fantastic and really makes you think about your approach. If in the wrong spot, you could have a heck of time. They both bring some very different things to the table to be sure.

[Jimmy Muratt]

Some other very good par 5 openers are those at:

Kingsley Club
Boston Golf Club

But, I agree with many above, the best is #1 at Sand Hills.

[Kyle Henderson]

Many find it over the top, but I really enjoy the opening par 5 at Tobacco Road. I've never experienced any other hole that looks so much harder than it actually plays (at least for sub-15 handicappers).

Subtle it's not, but that's part of what makes it so unique.

[Jon Spaulding]

Spyglass #1 is one of the best openers I have played. The tee shot and the 3rd shot require some real thought and a solid strike of the ball.

Rustic #1 is not as visually spectacular, but I find the 2nd shot layup/approach with the diagonal hazard fronting the green fascinating.

[Lou_Duran]

Jon Spaulding,

RE: Rustic Canyon #1

Was that a cougar they saw prowling along the fairway?  Someone said it was of the African variety, but that's hard to believe.

Like so many holes at RC, the wind makes all the difference in the world.  If the hazard was more intimidating, it would be a much more difficult decision.

[Tom Huckaby]

Just because we need to see this again....

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