[Ian Andrew]

10th at Riviera – George Thomas
14th at Royal Dornoch – John Sutherland
13th at Pine Valley – George Crump
13th at Royal County Down – Old Tom Morris
9th at Cypress Point – Alister MacKenzie

4th at Royal Portrush – Harry Colt
5th at Merion – Hugh Wilson
6th at The Creek Club – Raynor
4th at Seminole – Ross
17th at Royal Melbourne – Mackenzie

17th at The Old Course – Robertson
3rd at NLGA – Macdonald
5th at Crystal Downs – Mackenzie
11th at Prairie Dunes - Maxwell
3rd at Royal County Down – Old Tom Morris

3rd at Royal Adelaide – Mackenzie
4th at Barnbougle Dunes – Doak
10th at Shinnecock Hills – Flynn

[JNC Lyon]

13 at North Berwick - 360
15 at Prestwick - 350
13 at Prestwick - 460
17 at Royal Dornoch - 390
6 at Deal - 320
17 at Deal - 360
4 at Woking - 350
2 at Huntercombe - 400
12 at Swinley Forest - 460
18 at Renaissance - 450
1 at Yeamans Hall - 420
1 at Mountain Ridge - 400
13 at Oak Hill (West) - 400
5 at Worplesdon - 390
1 at Garden City - 300
16 at North Berwick - 360
4 at The Country Club - 330
14 at Addington - 360

[Philippe Binette]

nobody used shinnecock hills so far... funny

[Kevin Pallier]

I find it interesting looking back and seeing how many I'd consider changing now from my post - particularly after all the very good P4's I saw throughout the USA last year. What a difference a few years makes.

[Wade Schueneman]

Eric, it is nice to see #8 at RCD get some recognition.
Ian, I have repeatedly seen you extol the virtues of #13 at RCD.  I really like that hole.  Perhaps you can tell me why you are so impressed by it.

Royal County Down - 3, 9 (and 2 and 5 and 6 and 8 . . .)
Ballybunion - 11
Machrie - 7
Machrihanish - 5
Royal Portrush - 4, 5 (8 and 13 are special as well)
Lahinch - 3, 6, 9, 13
Royal Dornoch - 14
TOC - 12,13, 17
North Berwick - 13 (would choose 16 just for the green if the rest of the hole was not so bland)
Lane Creek - 14
Jennings Mill - 3

[JNC Lyon]

Eric, it is nice to see #8 at RCD get some recognition.
Ian, I have repeatedly seen you extol the virtues of #13 at RCD.  I really like that hole.  Perhaps you can tell me why you are so impressed by it.

Royal County Down - 3, 9 (and 2 and 5 and 6 and 8 . . .)
Ballybunion - 11
Machrie - 7
Machrihanish - 5
Royal Portrush - 4, 5 (8 and 13 are special as well)
Lahinch - 3, 6, 9, 13
Royal Dornoch - 14
TOC - 12,13, 17
North Berwick - 13 (would choose 16 just for the green if the rest of the hole was not so bland)
Lane Creek - 14
Jennings Mill - 3

Doesn't the green at 16 at North Berwick prevent the rest of the hole from being bland?  The putting surface and day's hole location on 16 affect the golfer's tee shot and second shot dramatically.  That's what makes 16 at North Berwick so great: the hole does not need extra hazards for defense, strategy and interest.  It only needs the green.

[Wade Schueneman]

RCD 3, 5, 11, 13
Pacific Dunes 2, 7
Bandon Trails 13
Pasatiempo 2, 11, 14, 16
Royal Portrush 4
TOC 17, 18
Lahinch 3, 10, 13, 15

Patrick, I see we like a lot of the same courses.  I am very interested in your selection of #15 at Lahinch.  I thought it was a good hole, but I have never heard anyone else even mention it.  What made it stand out for you (as opposed to #6 for instance)?

[Wade Schueneman]

Eric, it is nice to see #8 at RCD get some recognition.
Ian, I have repeatedly seen you extol the virtues of #13 at RCD.  I really like that hole.  Perhaps you can tell me why you are so impressed by it.

Royal County Down - 3, 9 (and 2 and 5 and 6 and 8 . . .)
Ballybunion - 11
Machrie - 7
Machrihanish - 5
Royal Portrush - 4, 5 (8 and 13 are special as well)
Lahinch - 3, 6, 9, 13
Royal Dornoch - 14
TOC - 12,13, 17
North Berwick - 13 (would choose 16 just for the green if the rest of the hole was not so bland)
Lane Creek - 14
Jennings Mill - 3

Doesn't the green at 16 at North Berwick prevent the rest of the hole from being bland?  The putting surface and day's hole location on 16 affect the golfer's tee shot and second shot dramatically.  That's what makes 16 at North Berwick so great: the hole does not need extra hazards for defense, strategy and interest.  It only needs the green.

That is a very fair point.  Unfortunately, I have only had one go at NB and thus have only seen the back hole location.  But don't get me wrong, I loved the hole.

[Keith Phillips]

have played many great courses only once, and have poor memory of individual holes - those I remember and love reflect some home club bias and include:

Mountain Ridge #8
Montclair #3 of 2
Montclair #2 of 4
Wentworth East #16
Bayonne #16
National (Canada) #7
Loch Lomond #10
Loch Lomond #15
Spyglass #4
Pebble Beach #8
Old Course #17
Crail Balcomie #4
North Berwick # 13
Pasatiempo #16
Plainfield #7
Turnberry Ailsa #7
Prestwick #17
Oakmont #8 

[Carr Harris]

This is what I came up with in about 15 minutes of brainstorming. I'm sure I'll kick myself shortly for omitting a hole I love.

Pine Valley GC - #13, #16
Pete Dye GC - #18
Chambers bay - #6
The Country Club (Pepper Pike) - #15, #17
Whistling Straits - #8
Oakmont CC - #10
Debordieu - #17
Stone Eagle - #14
Philadelphia CC - #17
Harbour Town - #18
Tobacco Road - #5,#18
Lookout Mountain GC - #11
Muirfield Village GC - #2
Canterbury GC - #4
Tot Hill Farm - #17 (I absolutely detested the rest of this course but what can I say, I found the 17th hole to be world class)

[Mark_F]

I find it interesting looking back and seeing how many I'd consider changing now from my post - particularly after all the very good P4's I saw throughout the USA last year. What a difference a few years makes.

Don't go changing it now, Kevin - you will only have to change it again in March next year.

[mark chalfant]

Longmeadow # 5  318
Toronto  #5
Yale  # 14  363
Royal  Dornoch  15   325
Essex County,  MA. # 17   330
Montclair  #5  391


Olympia Fields #  6   345
Prairie Dunes  # 9   428
Dornick  Hills  # 5    380
Oklahoma  City #  9   434
Wakonda #1   437


Oak  Tree # 2   408
Shuttle  Meadow # 4   341
Pine Valley  #6   391
Rockaway  Hunt  #7   378
SFGC  #3
Bel  Air #6  370

[Chip Gaskins]

Sand Hills #18
Lahinch #5
Maidstone # 9
Augusta National #5
Pebble Beach #8
Royal County Down #3
Friars Head #18
Chicago Golf #12
Shinnecock Hills #14
Pine Valley #17
Cal Club #3
Prairie Dunes #8
Tobacco Road #5
Royal Portrush #5
Creek Club #6
Pine Needles #2
Colorado Golf #9
Bethpage #5
Meadow Club #7

[Gary Daughters]

Royal Dornoch            #14
Cruden Bay                # 4
Tain                          #15
Eastward Ho!             #2
Longshadow              #2
Capitol City Crabapple  #8/#14
Cuscowilla                  #5
Brown's Mill                #16
Rivermont                  #5
Augusta Country Club  #2
Lookout Mountain       #9 #10
Brora                        #17
Lossiemouth             #18
Boat of Garten          #2
Kiawah                     #3/#4






          
                  

[Kevin Pallier]

I find it interesting looking back and seeing how many I'd consider changing now from my post - particularly after all the very good P4's I saw throughout the USA last year. What a difference a few years makes.

Don't go changing it now, Kevin - you will only have to change it again in March next year.

Indeed Mark

Am looking forward to seeing how many from LF might slip in there 

[Sean_A]

I like to think in terms of holes playing their numbers, so here goes with a double dip of ocean holes to begin - imagine if a cours started out this way!  Anyway, I can't say these are the best, but they are among my favourites.

1. Machrihanish - duh
2. North Berwick
3. Woking
4. Portrush
5. Hate to leave out Portrush, but Merions' 5th is superb grade level design
6. Deal
7. Pennard - may have gone with Sligo, but I have enough water (Formby a good shout as well)
8. Turnberry - I don't like the recently added bunkers, but I can't think of a better #8
9. Everybody picked Co Down and I can't disagree...though I was tempted with Tobacco Road just for WTFs - tee hee (ps I like that hole!)
10. Tough call between Porthcawl and St Georges Hill, but I will stay inland (Cavendish a strong candidate as well)
11. Ballybunion
12. Swinley Forest - zippity doo dah
13. Maybe the toughest call of all between Prestwick and North Berwick, but North Berwick was alrewady featured so...Prestwick
14. FOXY!!!!!!
15. Harlech
16. North Berwick - gotta have that green
17. Hate to leave out Brora, but TOC cannot be ignored
18 What else - Kington

Ciao

[Ben Stephens]

Following Sean basing holes on the actual numbers but one from each course to make it more diverse.

Here is the best holes I have played based on their number

1   Birkdale
2   Porthcawl      
3   Woodhall Spa
4   Lundin   
5   Turnberry
6   Panmure
7   Pennard   
8   Sandwich
9   Brancaster
10   Cavendish
11   Hunstanton
12   Hoylake
13   Elie
14   Ganton
15   Lytham
16   Pyle and Kenfig
17   Carnoustie
18   Leven

I've left out North Berwick, RCD and Burnham + Berrow holes  

Cheers
Ben

[Scott Warren]

I find it fun to do it Sean's way.

It hurts to leave out some holes, but best is best.

1 Burnham & Berrow
2 Silloth-on-Solway
3 Woking
4 Casa Serena
5 Dornoch
6 Deal
7 West Sussex
8 The Berkshire (Red)
9 The Addington
10 Sandwich
11 Le Touquet (La Mer)
12 Swinley Forest
13 County Louth
14 NSW
15 New Zealand
16 Renaissance Club
17 St Andrews (Old)
18 Rye

[Cristian]

Some not yet mentioned, some european flavour:

RSG 4
RCD 13
Dornoch 3
Machrihanish 5
Walton heath old 5
St George's Hill 13
Berkshire Red 11
Morfontaine 7
Ravenstein 2
Eindhoven 7
Haagsche 15
Noordwijk 8
Kennemer B7
Royal Zoute 10
Portrush 5
Glasgow Gailes 17
Gleneagles 9
Ballybunion 6

[Scott Warren]

Cristian:

Royal Zoute 10

YES!! Great shout.

[Simon Holt]

Best 18 Par 4s I have played, all from different course, and actual hole numbers...

1. Pine Valley
2. Royal County Down
3. NGLA
4. Kilspindie
5. Portrush (Dunluce)
6. Kingsbarns
7. Royal Troon
8. Turnberry
9. Friar's Head
10. Maidstone
11. The Renaissance Club
12. North Berwick
13. Cypress Point
14. Royal Dornoch
15. Bethpage Black
16. Pasatiempo
17. St. Andrews Old
18. Muirfield

Pretty happy to play that composite course any day of the week....if that were possible.

[JNC Lyon]

Simon, My eclectic will be a little different from my original list:

1. Mountain Ridge
2. Huntercombe
3. The Ocean Course
4. Woking
5. Worplesdon
6. Deal
7. Thendara
8. Yeamans Hall
9. Sandwich

10. Garden City
11. Royal Dornoch
12. Swinley Forest
13. Oak Hill (West)
14. Addington
15. Prestwick
16. North Berwick
17. Deal (I guess I can't have a list that doesn't include both 6 and 17 at Deal).
18. Renaissance

[Simon Holt]

Nice try though!

I still have to get down South.  I might book to go to London in a few weekends and tick a few off.

Will be in NYC in late October if you are around!

[Ted Cahill]

Bandon Trails; 1,4, 11
Pacific Dunes; 2, 7
Bandon Dunes; 4
Pebble Beach; 8
Spyglass; 6
Old MacDonald; 3

[JNC Lyon]

Nice try though!

I still have to get down South.  I might book to go to London in a few weekends and tick a few off.

Will be in NYC in late October if you are around!

Simon,

Swinley Forest, Huntercombe, Woking, Addington, and Worplesdon are all good picks around London besides the obvious at Sunningdale.  Those five cover the good heathland architects: Colt, Park, Abercromby, Paton/Low.  You couldn't go wrong with those.

Give me a shout when you are in NYC, it's only 4 hours from Colgate.  We could set up a day trip to Oak Hill, or we could play a course closer to the City.  Your call.

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