[Ken Moum]

Given how most of you feel about this subject, I had to share:

If you walk rather than ride a cart when you golf, you'll be adding more exercise to your life -- and maybe more strokes to your score, a new report suggests.

The rest of the story is here: http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20080606/hl_hsn/walkinggolfcourseaffectsswingperformance;_ylt=Ah3AxPh0UbL3ooD1VeziyISs0NUE

[Bill_McBride]

The implication is that more exercise will improve performance.......like walking the course?

Sounds like they got some cart riders and put them under the stress of walking!

[Dan Kelly]

Let's just hope that no tax dollars were expended on this ridiculous "study."

[Mark Pearce]

Isn't that why the PGA Tour has a no carts policy?  Wasn't that the main reason they objected to Casey Martin wanting a cart?

It's a sport and stamina is an important part of it.

[George Pazin]

Researchers studied seven recreational golfers, who typically average a score between 80 and 95, who walked while carrying a weighted golf bag during a simulated golf game.

Yep, 7 golfers sounds like the right sample size.

I am simply amazed at the schlock that gets passed off as science these days.

[Dan Kelly]

Researchers studied seven recreational golfers, who typically average a score between 80 and 95, who walked while carrying a weighted golf bag during a simulated golf game.

Yep, 7 golfers sounds like the right sample size.

I am simply amazed at the schlock that gets passed off as science these days.

A "weighted golf bag"? What do you suppose that means?

And, you know, hitting 20 drives at a time after walking a mile -- that's a remarkably good simulation of a golf game.

Where's that rolling-eyes emoticon when I need him?

[Kirk Gill]

The stupidest thing about this study was their methodology. A "simulated" golfing experience, with a sample group of only seven.

What would be so hard about taking a larger group of golfers and having them play a set number of rounds walking and riding at their home course?

Tally the totals. I guess that wouldn't be scientific or sterile enough for them, and anyone could do that sort of study, so that would make the results questionable..........

But Mark Pearce makes the central point. Stamina (or lack thereof) is supposed to make a difference in your swing, and your score.

[Melvyn Morrow]

That’s interesting – gives a good excuse for why Tiger and the other Pro’s don’t always perform well.

The 6 men & one woman – are they cart users or walkers in the first place?

Expect that breathing will be the next medical scare – who thinks these things up?  

[Jason Connor]

The study was foolish.  Just 7 people, each measured just once, plus a contrived situation.

I could take my weekend golf group (the hole-by-hole scores are online) and see if there is a larger front 9-to-back 9 discrepancy in the guys that walk vs. the guys that ride.

I'd have a 10 walkers, 20 riders and multiple data points for each.

Perhaps I shall.

[Jason Connor]

Something else that annoys me as a scientist who presents (hopefully much better research than this) results as conferences:  This article writer mentions the scientist's name only in paragraph 5 after writing

"... a new report suggests."
"...according to a study presented at the American College of Sports Medicine..."
"Researchers studied ... "
"Researchers found ..."

why not use the research team's name in the lead?  Sometimes names don't even get mentioned.  If a newspaper picked this up and printed 4 paragraphs, it wouldn't.  It seems like plagiarism  to me otherwise.  Furthermore, this isn't fact, it's one team's findings/opinion/experience.  Therefore saying who that team is relevant.  Particularly, since science is a dialogue, I'd like to be able to locate them so I may discuss the research with them and offer them data that will better answer their question.

[Dan Herrmann]

Here's their conclusion, which anybody would know intuitively:

"I think many golfers are realizing that their bodies are the most important tool they have in the golf swing, and that improving physical fitness may be more helpful than expensive golf clubs," said Higdon. "The study suggests that golf mechanics change and performance may decline the longer the golfer walks and swings. Getting in better shape may help golfers combat the effects of fatigue while playing golf."

True enough.  I can play and walk my course fine.  But get me to Rolling Green with all its uphill holes, and I admit that I'm tuckerd out at the end of the round.

But I didn't need a study to tell me that!

[Andy Doyle]

Whoa, boys!

A little context before you totally trash these guys.  I think what a lot of you are doing is reacting to the media report of this study - and hard to believe, the media sometimes puts their own spin on things to generate interest.

First of all, this study was presented as an abstract at the American College of Sports Medicine meeting.  It is very common for preliminary results or small-scales studies to be presented in this way.  This study has not been published or undergone the more rigorous peer review that typically occurs before being published in a scientific journal, so it might be most appropriately considered a "preliminary study."

Second, the purpose of the study was not to show that if you walk when you play golf, you will play worse.  Mark's reference to the Casey Martin case was more accurate.  There is TONS of research on the golf swing.  There is very little research on how the golf swing or golf performance might change over the course of a round, particularly when you walk.  

I've read the abstract, so I'll even defend their methods to some extent.  This was a biomechanical study - where they put the markers on specific segments of the body and use either high speed video or infrared to capture movement of specific body parts during the swing.  Because of the variability in any one individual swing, it is common for biomechanists to capture repeated swings, thus the 20 tee shots after each walking segment.

Because this was a lab and not a field study, it would be very hard to exactly simulate a round of golf.  So it looks like what they did was an approximation of the physical demands of walking 18 holes.  We do know from other studies that people walk approximately 5-6 miles when they play 18 holes, so they set up a 6 mile walking task broken up into 6 segments, and captured golf swings for analysis after each segment.

Was this a comprehensive study that perfectly simulated a round of golf and took into account all possible elements that might affect the golf swing?  No.  But in an area where not much is known, it appears to be a reasonable, first small step.  And that is the way science works - gaining information and knowledge through lots of small steps.

Also - these abstracts are required to list sources if the study was fund by a grant.  None was listed for this abstract, so people can rest easy knowing no taxpayer money was wasted.

Andy

[Peter Wagner]

Where's that rolling-eyes emoticon when I need him?

Here ya go Dan:   

Take your pick.

- Peter

PS. I have found that I play better if I walk.  Survey of one.

[Paul Stephenson]

Thanks for the explaination Andy.  It makes more sense.

I was stumped by the 1 mile walk.  How many times do you walk that long in one go during a round?  It seems to me that the researchers haven't built in the multiple stops that occur during a round.  Walking a round of golf entails many "little" walks, not a few "big" ones.

I can give you some untested data.  As a walker I can walk 36 holes in a day and feel pretty good afterwards.  That's about 10-12 miles.  If you sent me on a 12 mile hike one day I'd be exhausted by the end.  

[RJ_Daley]

Why don't these so-called medical biomechanicalists and sports medicine whizzes put their brains and focus on figuring out how to deliver affordable, accessible health care to everyone, than waste time on this crap!  If these medical types would stop attending bloated screw-off conferences at all the best golf resorts and spas, and get their asses in gear and do something really medically and healthcare beneficial to all citizens, then we'd actually have something worth going to a conference about.  

I'm sick and tired of all these fluff pieces of so-called medical news.  The AMA and other healthcare assocations have oodles of PR folks turning out this drek called medical news.  Every town TV and newspaper outlet has lazy ass reporters that cut and paste or accept video filler blurbs and call these segments, "heres to your health", "health matters", "your good day healthy dose of crap" etc, ad infinitum.  They come out with findings of the obvious that a fool wouldn't even come up with.  One day coffee is good and cleans your bowel, one day it is getting you one step from colin cancer, then drink red wine but only if you can handle 1000 glasses of it a day... It is all horsehockey, purpetuated by a bloated industry designed to confuse you and obfuscate the fact that they are really doing a walletectomy on the American public, transferring the middle classes wealth and assets to the medical, pharma, insurance complex sector.  

[Dan Kelly]

Why don't these so-called medical biomechanicalists and sports medicine whizzes put their brains and focus on figuring out how to deliver affordable, accessible health care to everyone, than waste time on this crap!  If these medical types would stop attending bloated screw-off conferences at all the best golf resorts and spas, and get their asses in gear and do something really medically and healthcare beneficial to all citizens, then we'd actually have something worth going to a conference about. 

I'm sick and tired of all these fluff pieces of so-called medical news.  The AMA and other healthcare assocations have oodles of PR folks turning out this drek called medical news.  Every town TV and newspaper outlet has lazy ass reporters that cut and paste or accept video filler blurbs and call these segments, "heres to your health", "health matters", "your good day healthy dose of crap" etc, ad infinitum.  They come out with findings of the obvious that a fool wouldn't even come up with.  One day coffee is good and cleans your bowel, one day it is getting you one step from colin cancer, then drink red wine but only if you can handle 1000 glasses of it a day... It is all horsehockey, purpetuated by a bloated industry designed to confuse you and obfuscate the fact that they are really doing a walletectomy on the American public, transferring the middle classes wealth and assets to the medical, pharma, insurance complex sector. 

Dick --

Checked your blood pressure lately?

Concernedly,
Dan

[RJ_Daley]

Dan, you are a newpaper man.  Tell me how do many of the local reporters and the paper and TV editors get all these so-called "medical news" pieces?  Are reporters going out and asking questions?  Are TV folks shooting and editting these video fluff pieces on new high tech med equipment sold by Seimans etc.?  Or, are they being fed news releases, and cut and pasting them and taking video feeds, then heading to the tavern to wind down from a hard day of cut and pasting. 

Investigative reporters are a dying breed. 

Dan, my blood pressure is fine, my healthcare access is not, and my tolerance to BS from that community of medical PR spinners is very low. 

[Kalen Braley]

RJ has really hit the nail on the head with this and I concur completely.  Its also the same reason why I can't stand to watch my local news anymore.

They put these puff pieces on, present them like real science, and the average joe doesn't have any clue that it was just 7 people walking in a lab somewhere and really had absolutly zero to do with an actual round. This is how crappy urban myths and lame "conventional" thinking get started and its complete caa-caa to say the least.  And one needn't look any further than Al Gore and his lame scientific findings that fills everyones mind with mush as the end result of stuff like this.  Why no news that the real scientific community has completely slammed and refutted just about everything that has come out of his mouth??

On a side note...

RJ, I find myself agreeing with alot of what you've been saying lately....you need to really stop that cause my wife says no one thinks like I do.  

[Andy Doyle]

...How many times do you walk that long in one go during a round?  

The short answer is that you don't.  I went to a conference earlier this spring where some guys presented work they had done trying to really simulate the walking in a round of golf.  The problem is that it's just too random and variable - courses are different lengths, holes are different lengths, no consistency from hole to hole on length, etc, etc.  So researchers will try to set up some design that reasonably works for the purpose/design of their study.

Andy

[Andy Doyle]

...  If these medical types would stop attending bloated screw-off conferences at all the best golf resorts and spas

This conference was in Indianapolis - 

[C. Squier]

BREAKING NEWS:  Physical work makes people tired. 


An interesting study would be the mental affects of walking vs. riding.  I almost always play better, or "smarter" as the case may be when walking.  One could hypothesize that increased blood flow puts more oxygen into your brain, more time between shots allows you to focus on the next shot rather than the last or simply one feels more like a real golfer when walking (that one was for you Melvyn!).

[George Pazin]

post deleted

[Dan Kelly]

Dan, you are a newpaper man.  Tell me how do many of the local reporters and the paper and TV editors get all these so-called "medical news" pieces?  Are reporters going out and asking questions?  Are TV folks shooting and editting these video fluff pieces on new high tech med equipment sold by Seimans etc.?  Or, are they being fed news releases, and cut and pasting them and taking video feeds, then heading to the tavern to wind down from a hard day of cut and pasting. 

Investigative reporters are a dying breed. 

Dan, my blood pressure is fine, my healthcare access is not, and my tolerance to BS from that community of medical PR spinners is very low. 

This time, Dick, I'm not joking (in case my comic intent was not clear the first time).

I don't know the genesis of the medical news pieces you're objecting to. I'm not a medical reporter, or a medical editor.

I suggest that you ask some medical reporters when you see a story you find lacking.

Most place nowadays list e-mail addresses for writers.

Some of the reporters might even reply.

[Melvyn Morrow]

Clint

You smooth talking charmer – so you are saying that walking is good for the golfer.  

All us walkers have know that for years and some older walkers apparently have a very active sex life. I'm not sure they are swingers though

‘Walking puts lead in your pencil – don’t waste it on a cart’ should be the new war cry against carts and cart paths.  

[Andy Doyle]

BREAKING NEWS:  Physical work makes people tired.

It all sounds so obvious - if you walk fast enough, or far enough, or it's hilly or hot, you'll get tired and it affects your golf game.  I've walked enough rounds in the Georgia heat and had my scores crater on the back 9 to also think it's obvious.

What I find fascinating, though, is that Casey Martin's lawyers were able to successfully argue that walking during a golf tournament has absolutely no effect on performance and he should therefore be allowed the use of a cart.  And there was absolutely no direct scientific evidence to support one side or the other.  The physiologist who testified on muscle fatigue for the plantiff does his muscle research on rats.

Andy

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