[Matt_Ward]

For those who simply gave up here are the correct answers ...

NGLA (1900-09)
Lido (1910-19)
Cypress Point (1920-29)
Pinehurst #2 (1930-39)
Peachtree (1940-49)
Oakland Hills / South (1950-59)
Harbour Town (1960-69)
Muirfield Village (1970-79)
TPC Sawgrass (1980-89)
Sand Hills (1990-99)

[Jim Nugent]

I thought ANGC was a sure thing. 

[Jeff_Brauer]

Jim,

I would agree with you. If breakthrough means future influence, rather than what it did for the gca in question, and you measure the design influence of then ANGC set the model for more inland cousres - few bunkers, strategically placed, etc., not to mention the maintenance influence more than most courses.  Who replicated Pinehurst?

Since we have RTJ and MacRaynor on the list twice each, so I presume the list is of design influences.  NGLA influenced design concepts)so Lido could only be for showing how massive construction could be, no?

[Jim Nugent]

What if we change the rules, and list the top 10 U.S. breakthroughs, no matter when they were built.  Would any of you make different choices?

The other takeoff is top ten world-wide, again not by decade, but at any time.   

[Mike Nuzzo]

For those who simply gave up here are the correct answers ...

When will you tell us guys that never even tried?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Jim,

I would still like to see the definition of "breakthrough" used in the article.  There may be smarter guys than me!

But if breakthrough is a new technology, or influencing thought, just how many could there be in a decade?  Almost by nature, one has to be the most dominant, no?  I mean, if Sand Hills and TPC hit at the same time, wouldn't one likely influence design for the next decade more than the other?  And, given the time it takes to construct the spinoffs, probably it would take a decade for influences to be truly felt.

That said, if there were a period of time when multiple breakthroughs occurred, in would have to be 1990 until now, just because there are so many courses built, and in so many different styles.

[Jon Wiggett]

Wheres Muirhead

[Thomas MacWood]

An interesting list, I'd be interested in knowing what the reasoning was with Lido and Pinehurst #2.

[Jim Nugent]

Jim,

I would still like to see the definition of "breakthrough" used in the article.  There may be smarter guys than me!

But if breakthrough is a new technology, or influencing thought, just how many could there be in a decade?  Almost by nature, one has to be the most dominant, no?  I mean, if Sand Hills and TPC hit at the same time, wouldn't one likely influence design for the next decade more than the other?  And, given the time it takes to construct the spinoffs, probably it would take a decade for influences to be truly felt.

That said, if there were a period of time when multiple breakthroughs occurred, in would have to be 1990 until now, just because there are so many courses built, and in so many different styles.

I agree, the definition is key.  Even so, I have a few thoughts.  First, what is magical about a decade?  It's just an arbitrary time period.  They could have said one course per 5 years, or 20 years, or any time frame they liked. 

Also, still picking decades, it wouldn't necessarily matter if one course is more influential than others.  There could still be others from that decade that rate among the top ten ever.   

It seems to me there might be more than one per decade.  Some possibilities: Lido and Pine Valley and Merion.  Pinehurst and ANGC and Myopia Hunt.  CPC and Pebble.  Oakmont and anything.  Yes, no?  You guys who know architecture better than I have a better sense about this.  Hence my question. 

[Matt_Ward]

Gents:

I'll post the specifics that were provided by the magazine shortly.

[Matt_Ward]

I put this on the wrong thread previously ...

Some have asked for the reasoning behind the selections ...

1. NGLA (1909) -- Patterened after famous British holes by C.B. Macdonald, it becamse the role model for courses such as Merion.

2. Lido (1915) -- Macdonald again. First $1 million course, featuring a contest-winning 18th designed by unknown Alister Mackenzie. Sadly, it didn't survivie World War II.

3. Cypress Point (1928) -- Mackenzie's artistic triumph up the street from Pebble Beach led Bobby Jones to hire him to design Augusta National.

4. Pinehurst #2 (1935) -- Supposedly, Donald Ross' response to not being hired to design Augusta National. First course ever awarded a major (1936 PGA) before being completed.

5. Peachtree (1948) -- Bobby Jones' new Augusta National-type club in Atlanta done with obscure architect RTJ, was radical in its design, with enormous tees, greens and yardage.

6. Oakland Hills (1951) -- RTJ shed obscurity when, after he remodeled this old Ross design into a monster, Ben Hogan slayed it to win the '51 US Open, then villified Jones in the press.

7. Harbour Town (1969) -- Pete Dye's breakthrough course, with tiny greens bolstered by walls of railroad ties.

8. Muirfield Village (1974) -- Jack Nicklaus' breakout course near his hometown of Columbus. Nicklaus' insistence upon perfect conditions eventually raised the national standard at extraordinary cost.

9. TPC at Sawgrass (1981) -- Deane Beman trademarked the phrase "stadium golf" and Pete Dye gave it meaning. Viewers never had it so good, but tour pros never had it so tough, especially hitting the death-or-glory island green 17th.

10. Sand Hills (1994) -- Ben Crenshaw and Bill Coore massaged a magnificent layout from the last frontier of American golf, Great Plains and dunes.

[Jim Nugent]

I can't see Pinehurst over ANGC.  Anyone else? 

[Phil McDade]

Me, neither. Odd that Cyrpress Point makes the list, but not the course that was the result of CPoint's work by Mackenzie.

Was CP that notable in terms of being a breakthrough? What was some remarkable about it? It's a thrilling site, with maybe the world's best par 3. But truly a breakthrough?

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